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[quote=tmac9wr;19172452]I'm not sure of Miami's banking prominence...but I can say for sure that neither Atlanta or Miami have a serious presence in the financial services industry.
Those "banking" centers really don't mean all that much since it's only referring to consumer banking. For example, New York City has individual financial institutions (like BlackRock) which have more Assets Under Management than New York City banks have in total. I can name two companies in Boston off the top of my head (Fidelity and State Street) which have comparable Assets Under Management to the entire city of Charlotte. Currently Fidelity has $1.5 trillion under management and State Street has $1.8 trillion. While we often see commercials for our local banks on tv, radio, billboards, etc...much of the real money is being managed by "Behind the Scenes" companies like BlackRock, State Street, and BNY Mellon. Not to downplay the importance of banks like BoA, Chase or Citi...but most people have never heard of the three companies I mentioned earlier.
I'm a little confused by this response...are you saying Boston & San Francisco don't measure up to Philadelphia in terms of financial services, or Atlanta doesn't measure up to Philadelphia?
If you're referring to Atlanta, then I wholeheartedly agree..but if you're referring to Boston & SF, then I definitely disagree. Both are on a different level than Philadelphia in regards to financial services. You showed GFCI rankings earlier in the thread, which support this.
I spent a year of college in Vermont before transferring out, and I believe you're mistaken. While VT is a very popular vacation destination for New Yorkers, it still is very well connected with Boston. Boston doesn't necessarily "run" New England, but it's the unmistakable capital of the region and with the exception of Southwestern CT, it influences the region more than any other city.
I understand why some would consider Philadelphia more important than Boston, but I disagree. Philadelphia has an advantage in GDP and Pharmaceuticals, but Boston has the advantage on things such as financial services, biotechnology, and education...with possibly a slight edge in medical research, but they could be tied. Whichever way you lean in the Boston/Philly importance comparison, you can't give a huge overall advantage to one over the other.[/quote]
I didnt say boston wasnt the most influencial city in new england, but i dont think it dominates new england at all. It is the largest and most well known city in new england, but new england doesnt revolve around boston IMO.
Boston doesnt really have that much more of a leg up in education, there are more colleges, but philly is right behind, also medical research is at the very least a tie, but i give the edge to philadelphia, and philadelphia plays a large roll in the pharmaceutical industry.
I would think Vangaurd 1.4 Trillion in assets and the banking/credit industry of Wilmington more than surpass Atlanta without many of the smaller other cos that also exist. Philly is a quiet finance center but I would also agree that Boston and SF would both be ahead of Philly in this sector by a decent margin but also believe Philly to be ahead of Atlanta but a decent margin as well.
On some of the other metrics
No big bank remains HQ'd in Philly though the CC industry is HUGE in the area - saw the list earlier and Wilmington DE is 4th 5th in deposits. Lincoln Financial is relatively large and both have a Fed Bank (wash) and believe the Philly exchange is larger than Atlanta's though am not 100% sure - believe it (The Philadelphia Stock Exchange) is still a fairly significant player in the derivatives market.
An Intangible is Wharton not to be underestimated in the world of Finance
Wilmington is Not Philly.(Well techically)but Delaware has banking laws thats beneficial to banks incorporate their.
The Philadelphia Stock Exchange is no longer separate enity.It is a part of NASADQ.NASDAQ is now about to be acquired by German company. It was until a day or two ago on the market in a hostile takeover with the partnership of Atlanta based with Intercontinental Exchange(I.C.E.) i and NYSE but its been dropped due to concerns over antitrust laws.I.C.E. is a futures Exchange.I.C.E. also is the owner of the New York Board and Trade(NYBOT) since 2007.Were not talking about a "kiddie operation" here
Invesco Ltd. (NYSE: IVZ) is an independent investment management company that is incorporated in Bermuda, headquartered in Atlanta, Georgia and trades on the New York Stock Exchange. Its common stock is a constituent of the S&P 500, the S&P 500 Value index, Russell 1000 and the Russell MidCap Indices. It has branches in 20 countries,[2] with more than half of its business in the United States.[2] Invesco operates under the Invesco, Trimark, Invesco Perpetual, Atlantic Trust, WL Ross and Powershares brand names.
Invesco is a WORLDWIDE company with over 5,500 employees worldwide.
Wharton is a beast and always will be.But Atlanta does have 4 schools that have been ranked(one in the top 25) in the top 100 ranked business school.
#23 Emory University | Goizueta Business School
Georgia State University, J. Mack Robinson College of Business
#110 Clark Atlanta University
#28 Georgia Institute of Technology
#57 University of Georgia in nearby Athens which is the equivalent distance of Philly to Wilmington.
Temple was not ranked at #63 and Drexel at #107.That was the last time Philly was represented.Miami was nowhere near ranked
University of Miami was the only one in the top 100 and it showed up at #85
We are taking about Finance as an industry.Not just commercial banking nor investment banks.The commercial banks basically have more power because they employ more people in more locations.
Not to mention that Atlanta is where most NYC and Boston companies set up shop in the South.Consultng fimrs like MARSH which owns Mercer.
Primerica also has its headquarters here.
Quote:
Primerica, Inc. (NYSE: PRI) is a referral marketer[6] of financial products and services using a hybrid model of direct selling, franchising and distribution.[1][7] In an official comment submitted to the U.S. Federal Trade Commission (FTC), Primerica described its own activities as "multi-level marketing opportunities".[8]
Wilmington is Not Philly.(Well techically)but Delaware has banking laws thats beneficial to banks incorporate their.
The Philadelphia Stock Exchange is no longer separate enity.It is a part of NASADQ.NASDAQ is now about to be acquired by German company. It was until a day or two ago on the market in a hostile takeover with the partnership of Atlanta based with Intercontinental Exchange(I.C.E.) i and NYSE but its been dropped due to concerns over antitrust laws.I.C.E. is a futures Exchange.I.C.E. also is the owner of the New York Board and Trade(NYBOT) since 2007.Were not talking about a "kiddie operation" here
Invesco Ltd. (NYSE: IVZ) is an independent investment management company that is incorporated in Bermuda, headquartered in Atlanta, Georgia and trades on the New York Stock Exchange. Its common stock is a constituent of the S&P 500, the S&P 500 Value index, Russell 1000 and the Russell MidCap Indices. It has branches in 20 countries,[2] with more than half of its business in the United States.[2] Invesco operates under the Invesco, Trimark, Invesco Perpetual, Atlantic Trust, WL Ross and Powershares brand names.
Wharton is a beast and always will be.But Atlanta does have 4 schools that have been ranked(one in the top 25) in the top 100 ranked business school.
#23 Emory University | Goizueta Business School
Georgia State University, J. Mack Robinson College of Business
#110 Clark Atlanta University
#28 Georgia Institute of Technology
#57 University of Georgia in nearby Athens which is the equivalent distance of Philly to Wilmington.
Temple was not ranked at #63 and Drexel at #107.That was the last time Philly was represented.Miami was nowhere near ranked
University of Miami was the only one in the top 100 and it showed up at #85
We are taking about Finance as an industry.Not just commercial banking nor investment banks.The commercial banks basically have more power because they employ more people in more locations.
Not to mention that Atlanta is where most NYC and Boston companies set up shop in the South.Consultng fimrs like MARSH which owns Mercer.
Primerica also has its headquarters here.
Athens is much further than is Wilmington; Princeton is closer to, and well then add in Villanova as well and University of DE. Wilmington not part of Philly? Huh - it is what 15 miles from the city? Oh and because there is a DE advantage it doesnt count; that is like TX doesnt count because they are favorable to business; it is a huge advantage.
Clark Atlanta - is that a business/finance school? not sure honestly because isnt that the premis if not throw in Haverford, Swarthmore, Bryn Mawr, and Ursinus all top ten Liberal Arts schools in the country. Oh and why not Widener, Arcadia, St Joes, La Salle etc. but really thought the specific tangent was finance.
Anyway I still believe that Philly would best Atlanta in the area Finance; but we can agree to disagree.
Though these are all with a grain of salt this Index would put a Philly rating on Financial Flow nearly three times the rating of Atlanta (parameter 4 at the end of the document) and actually on par with Boston (which to me is surprising but by the numbers Philly is actually a pretty large financial metro; Vangaurd alone handles 1.4 Trillion in assets).
Athens is much further than is Wilmington; Princeton is closer to, and well then add in Villanova as well and University of DE. Wilmington not part of Philly? Huh - it is what 15 miles from the city? Oh and because there is a DE advantage it doesnt count; that is like TX doesnt count because they are favorable to business; it is a huge advantage.
Clark Atlanta - is that a business/finance school? not sure honestly because isnt that the premis if not throw in Haverford, Swarthmore, Bryn Mawr, and Ursinus all top ten Liberal Arts schools in the country. Oh and why not Widener, Arcadia, St Joes, La Salle etc. but really thought the specific tangent was finance.
Anyway I still believe that Philly would best Atlanta in the area Finance; but we can agree to disagree.
Though these are all with a grain of salt this Index would put a Philly rating on Financial Flow nearly three times the rating of Atlanta (parameter 4 at the end of the document) and actually on par with Boston (which to me is surprising but by the numbers Philly is actually a pretty large financial metro; Vangaurd alone handles 1.4 Trillion in assets).
Clark Atlanta is a National HBCU with a business school program that is ranked.Those other schools you mentioned like Villanova are liberal arts schools.
AThens is about 1 hr from Downtown Atlanta and 20-30minutes from Gwinnet County border.
I said DE because revenue does not go to the state of PN.For the purpose of this thread I dont see how it can be considered as it is in another state.Even if you do neither are ranked in the top 100.
Im not making the argument that Atlanta would best "Philly" in finance,Im just saying I don't think it so easy a call as you are making it seem.For or against.
Ranking are there for and against Atlanta vs Philly.Its very easy to see Atlanta on list ahead of Philly as it is the other way around,but I ALWAYS see Boston on everything.
I'm a little confused by this response...are you saying Boston & San Francisco don't measure up to Philadelphia in terms of financial services, or Atlanta doesn't measure up to Philadelphia?
If you're referring to Atlanta, then I wholeheartedly agree..but if you're referring to Boston & SF, then I definitely disagree. Both are on a different level than Philadelphia in regards to financial services. You showed GFCI rankings earlier in the thread, which support this.
Yeah what I was saying is that although Philly is no NYC, Chicago, Boston, DC, or SF in finance its still ahead of Atlanta which is predominantly nonexistent in that sector.
Miami BTW although isnt a globally acclaimed financial center is one of the largest for Latin American based firms, Atlanta doesnt compete with it.
Clark Atlanta is a National HBCU with a business school program that is ranked.Those other schools you mentioned like Villanova are liberal arts schools.
AThens is about 1 hr from Downtown Atlanta and 20-30minutes from Gwinnet County border.
I said DE because revenue does not go to the state of PN.For the purpose of this thread I dont see how it can be considered as it is in another state.Even if you do neither are ranked in the top 100.
Im not making the argument that Atlanta would best "Philly" in finance,Im just saying I don't think it so easy a call as you are making it seem.For or against.
Ranking are there for and against Atlanta vs Philly.Its very easy to see Atlanta on list ahead of Philly as it is the other way around,but I ALWAYS see Boston on everything.
Villanova is I believe the 1st or 2nd most common Business bachelors degree on Wall Street - it is a very good business school. Univ of DE is ranked in the top 50
DE is another state so it doesnt count? it is 30 minutes from Center City and Princeton is 40 minutes from CC both closer than Athens and Wilmington is extremely intertwined in the Philly area - states aren't as meaningful as divides up here. I had meetings in three different states and two different MSAs last thursday and still made it home by 5:30 including my first meeting on Long island - i dont buy the state thing at all. You do realize that NJ is 2 miles from City hall in Philadelphia and Wilmington is about the distance of Roswell from the Atlanta DT.
Agree on the rankings - while meaningful have to much value placed on them at times
Also what about companies like Lincoln Financial or VC companies like Lubert-Alder also not at all insignificant. Merril Lynch has nearly 10,000 employees on Exit 2 of 95 in Mercer County (meaning two miles from Bucks county. Or SEI in the KOP area etc another 600 Billion in assets right down the road from Vangaurd with 1.4 Trillion in assets managed - employing more than 18,000 just in these locations since you are post employee sizes for Invesco - the combination of the Merrill/Vangaurd/SEI alone have nearly 6 times the numb er of employess alone in the Philly area as does Invesco in total worldwide not to mention huge presence of other companies like Blackrock etc. in the Philly area - Wont even add he employees at Dunn and Bradstreet also with a huge operation in Mercer county (plainsboro) but would estimate 5-6K additional employees in this facility or the Wells Fargo Asset managment operations in Center City; a holdover from the Corestates/Wachovia god knows what anymore bank etc. Finance is not the key industry for Philly but is actually more pronounced than most realize especially as many of the assets are with non publicly traded companies and never make the f500 lists where they would among the largest companies...
I would say Chicago. Boston and New England have don't have as much land as Atlanta and Chicago. The Southeast is freaking huge and so is the Midwest. While Boston clearly dominates New England I also kept in mind the influence of each region on the country. For Atlanta and Chicago to have as much dominance as they do over regions larger than the Northeast, is incredibly amazing.
Villanova is I believe the 1st or 2nd most common Business bachelors degree on Wall Street - it is a very good business school. Univ of DE is ranked in the top 50
DE is another state so it doesnt count? it is 30 minutes from Center City and Princeton is 40 minutes from CC both closer than Athens and Wilmington is extremely intertwined in the Philly area - states aren't as meaningful as divides up here. I had meetings in three different states and two different MSAs last thursday and still made it home by 5:30 including my first meeting on Long island - i dont buy the state thing at all. You do realize that NJ is 2 miles from City hall in Philadelphia and Wilmington is about the distance of Roswell from the Atlanta DT.
Agree on the rankings - while meaningful have to much value placed on them at times
Also what about companies like Lincoln Financial or VC companies like Lubert-Alder also not at all insignificant. Merril Lynch has nearly 10,000 employees on Exit 2 of 95 in Mercer County (meaning two miles from Bucks county. Or SEI in the KOP area etc another 600 Billion in assets right down the road from Vangaurd with 1.4 Trillion in assets managed - employing more than 18,000 just in these locations since you are post employee sizes for Invesco - the combination of the Merrill/Vangaurd/SEI alone have nearly 6 times the numb er of employess alone in the Philly area as does Invesco in total worldwide not to mention huge presence of other companies like Blackrock etc. in the Philly area - Wont even add he employees at Dunn and Bradstreet also with a huge operation in Mercer county (plainsboro) but would estimate 5-6K additional employees in this facility or the Wells Fargo Asset managment operations in Center City; a holdover from the Corestates/Wachovia god knows what anymore bank etc. Finance is not the key industry for Philly but is actually more pronounced than most realize especially as many of the assets are with non publicly traded companies and never make the f500 lists where they would among the largest companies...
So funny that you mentioned Dunn and Bradstreet.My best friend at the time is was living in Marlton near Cherry Hill.I had moved up there and lived with him and his wife until I got my own place.She transferred to Atlanta to work at the regional division here.She was pretty high up.
As far as what people know about Finance in Philly is exactly what Im saying about Atlanta.Atlanta was even bigger before North Carlina gobbled up GA banks. Nations Bank became Bank of America after merging with one of the South biggest banks at the time.For a minute the Headquarters was in Atlanta before t eventually moved to Charlotte.
Morehouse COllege sends is a top feeder school for Wall Street.
Quote:
Morehouse said its relationship with Goldman Sachs is nearly 100 years old. John Hope, the first black president of Morehouse and Walter Sachs, the son of one of the founders of Goldman Sachs, played significant leadership roles in the NAACP. Hope later served on the advisory board for the group. In 1909, Walter Sachs served as the first treasurer and chairman of the finance committee for the NAACP. Although Sachs' role was relatively unknown, he was an early figure in the civil rights movement as he helped the organization establish special funds to promote an anti-lynching crusade and take legal action against discrimination.
So funny that you mentioned Dunn and Bradstreet.My best friend at the time is was living in Marlton near Cherry Hill.I had moved up there and lived with him and his wife until I got my own place.She transferred to Atlanta to work at the regional division here.She was pretty high up.
As far as what people know about Finance in Philly is exactly what Im saying about Atlanta.Atlanta was even bigger before North Carlina gobbled up GA banks. Nations Bank became Bank of America after merging with one of the South biggest banks at the time.For a minute the Headquarters was in Atlanta before t eventually moved to Charlotte.
Morehouse COllege sends is a top feeder school for Wall Street.
Funny on Goldman - qoute from their recrutiment strategy I would chose a Villanova undergrad over Wharton as my top two but the Villanova grad is ready to step in and work - oh both in Philly
BTW Villanova has consistently been ranked between 6-12 among Business Schools in the US for undergrad along with Wharton in the top 5 and typically #1 in the world for Graduate Finance but then again Wharton needs no explanation
FWIW Emory does quite well (actually finished a place ahead of Wharton (4) undergrad in 2011 though Wharton is really more well known as the grduate school) on the undergrad ranking as well though places far fewer as does Moorehouse combined from Atlanta to Wallstreet when compared to Villanova alone not even adding those from Wharton or Princeton.
Sadly another stat with real world implications Villanova was the second most common undergrad in terms of those lost on 9/11
Though i did find it comical when you suggested that Villanova is not a business school - I assume you do not work in finance; i do not anymore but spent the first part of my career doing M&A work on wallstreet before what i do currently as a managment and marketing consultant in the Pharma space - and you mentioned Bain and Mckinnsey and BCG imagine the concept of fluid dynamics may also not resonate with you - is ok I did the Mckinnsey gig before as well
Also in finance people dont typically move to Atlanta (or even Philly for that matter) to take top jobs in this industry; especially regional ones
I spend far too much on useless banter on here
Last edited by kidphilly; 05-16-2011 at 10:53 PM..
Wilmington is Not Philly.(Well techically)but Delaware has banking laws thats beneficial to banks incorporate their.
The Philadelphia Stock Exchange is no longer separate enity.It is a part of NASADQ.NASDAQ is now about to be acquired by German company. It was until a day or two ago on the market in a hostile takeover with the partnership of Atlanta based with Intercontinental Exchange(I.C.E.) i and NYSE but its been dropped due to concerns over antitrust laws.I.C.E. is a futures Exchange.I.C.E. also is the owner of the New York Board and Trade(NYBOT) since 2007.Were not talking about a "kiddie operation" here
Invesco Ltd. (NYSE: IVZ) is an independent investment management company that is incorporated in Bermuda, headquartered in Atlanta, Georgia and trades on the New York Stock Exchange. Its common stock is a constituent of the S&P 500, the S&P 500 Value index, Russell 1000 and the Russell MidCap Indices. It has branches in 20 countries,[2] with more than half of its business in the United States.[2] Invesco operates under the Invesco, Trimark, Invesco Perpetual, Atlantic Trust, WL Ross and Powershares brand names.
Invesco is a WORLDWIDE company with over 5,500 employees worldwide.
Wharton is a beast and always will be.But Atlanta does have 4 schools that have been ranked(one in the top 25) in the top 100 ranked business school.
#23 Emory University | Goizueta Business School
Georgia State University, J. Mack Robinson College of Business
#110 Clark Atlanta University
#28 Georgia Institute of Technology
#57 University of Georgia in nearby Athens which is the equivalent distance of Philly to Wilmington.
Temple was not ranked at #63 and Drexel at #107.That was the last time Philly was represented.Miami was nowhere near ranked
University of Miami was the only one in the top 100 and it showed up at #85
.
Im confused by your statement, because your saying how drexel and temple havent been ranked high in their business programs, but you forgot to mention that the university of pennsylvania was ranked the number one business program in the country.
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