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Two of my favorite states, in a match up that hasnt been done before!
I decided to do a 2-on-2 because 1) I couldn't decide which two to put against each other, and 2) collectively, the two combos are equidistant from each other (within themselves), and have nearly identical MSA and CSA sizes. The biggest difference I could find is that Alb/Cuse are 3rd Tier cities in New York, but Cola/Chuck are the top dogs (along with Greenville) in South Carolina...
Albany and Charleston are two of the nation's most historic cities. Albany and Columbia are capitals. There is one flagship university (USC, SU) in both combos, followed with other schools. Similarities are bound for comparison...
The SC cities are growing much faster, but the NY cities are traditionally larger and more urban in nature. I lived in Albany and have been to both Columbia and Syracuse 4-5 times; Charleston is the only city here I'm not familiar with, but I'll save my opinions for downthread...
Compare on all the normal criteria (QOL, economy, etc), with answers to these added questions:
1. Which (mini) region is more important regionally? Do either have any weight of national significance?
2. Which city, and which region, would you rather reside?
3. How would you rank each city individually, 1-4?
This thought came about as my girlfriend and I have discussed our moving options for around 2019-2020. She's bent on Charleston, to which I've never been, and while South Carolina is my favorite state, I could also see myself living back Upstate NY (to which she's never been). I'd prefer to move to DC, but if I have to live in a smaller city than Richmond, the cities on this thread are really my only options. Just a little background info!
As a native SC'er, I know a lot about Columbia and Charleston but not much at all about Albany and Syracuse.
I think this is very even, comparison-wise. I think I l8ke each state for different reasons:
-I much prefer South Carolina weather. I found myself able to adapt to Upstate New York winters after two winters, but overall they were far too long, and far too cold for my liking...
-I enjoyed the multi ethnic cultures of Albany and Syracuse. I was introduced to a different span of interests, based on being around so many different ethnicities. I definitely enjoyed the Boricuas!
-South Carolina, unsurprisingly, has a stronger black identity. There is considerable black communities in Syracuse and Albany, and both have a black middle class. But the black culture in SC is so much more profound...
-I can't speak on tolerance since I never lived in SC, but I will say I've never felt out of place in SC, even in the smallest towns. I've never felt targeted, and I never felt that way in Syracuse or Albany, although I did in smaller Upstate cities...
-Columbia is a very beautiful city in Spring, honestly one of my favorite cities to see in the Spring. Syracuse isn't particularly beautiful, but Albany is...
-Albany has outstanding nightlife for its size, and also attracts many concerts and such for its size. It's Downtown is largely underwhelming, but there are some wonderful neighborhoods in that city. Syracuse too, and I think the urbanity of New York cities in general appeals to the urbanite in me more than any neighborhood I've been to in Columbia...
-I enjoyed the experiencing new ethnic dishes Upstate. Still, there is nothing like good southern breakfasts or soul food in New York--there are restaurants that appeal to these varieties, but trust me, you would know it isn't the real thing...
-all of these cities have their own identities and cultures. I found that Syracuse seems to have its own identity more than Cola or Alb. Albany is very much under the wide influence of New York City--Albany follows City politics, City fashion, City media, so much in Albany, although fronted as an opposite (or rebuke) to the City, is about looking up to the City or trying to match the City. There's a definite Albany culture, but to an outsider, it's indistinguishable in some respects from the City, which is what I'm talking about. Columbia as well has its own culture, but both Charlotte and Atlanta have pull there. Syracuse seems to be more of its own thing; the quintessential Upstate city...
This is an interesting versus mash up only because there is the Utica-Rome metro in between Albany and Syracuse. I don't think there is a metro in between Columbia and Charleston.
As for which to live, it will depend on what you prefer and are looking for. I spent some time in Columbia when I was in the military and the maternal part of my family is from SC. So, I personally could do both. What is interesting is that quite a few Black Upstate NYers have roots in SC.
Charleston is hot right now in terms of growth, but Albany is actually a growing metro. Columbia is also growing and Syracuse is essentially static/slow growth. Overall COL likely goes Columbia, Syracuse, Charleston and Albany.
The SC areas have what people would consider to be the better weather and Charleston is on the coast.
What may be the wild card is that Albany is only a couple of hours from NYC and Boston, with Montreal only a few hours away. Syracuse is a little bit further away from those places.
Just from what I've read, I think the GF may like the Albany area in terms of the Upstate NY mash up due to the more Colonial/older look and feel in terms of architecture. If so, you guys might like the Delaware Ave/Whitehall areas. They are next to each other and has some good sized/pluralistically more Black areas that are in the middle class range. There are other parts of Albany, as well as Troy and Schenectady that may work. For suburbs, Colonie comes to mind, as well as Menands, parts of Watervliet, parts of Rensselaer and maybe a couple of others may work.
If she actually likes Syracuse, I'd look into the majority of East Side of the city. Perhaps around Westcott, as it has a nice business district, is close to Syracuse University/hospitals/Marshall Street, there are a couple of parks nearby, a library and more. It is also known for being a relatively eclectic neighborhood known for its hippy vibe, but will have a good mix of people.
There's also the working to solidly middle class and predominately Black Salt Springs neighborhood on that side of town. It is near Le Moyne College, it also has a range of older apartments, there's shopping on Erie Boulevard East(a car centric strip that goes into DeWitt), a park, one of the oldest historically Black churches in the city(Bethany Baptist Church) and a library.
If you are somewhat of a foodie, Las Delicias on Westcott is a Spanish Caribbean spot that I go to now and then. You may like the Jamaican spots like Jerk Hut on South Ave., Jamaica Lick Finger on West Onondaga(a whole in the wall spot) and my favorite, the Jamerican Diner on Washington in Downtown Syracuse. There is also Don Juan's on Grand for Spanish Caribbean as well.
There are other parts of the city that may work like the Valley neighborhood(from around Seneca Turnpike to the south) which is a mixed and middle class area on the South Side. As for suburbs, I'd say look into parts of DeWitt, Clay, Salina and maybe Onondaga.
Hopefully someone will chime in with some specific info about Charleston and Columbia.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 07-02-2016 at 04:25 PM..
@ckhthankgod, thanks for the info! I've been telling you for a few years I'd be happy coming back to NY. My girlfriend is, for the time being, thoroughly opposed to living in New York. We have a few years to try to change her mind...
I'm familiar with Delaware Ave. That's definitely somewhere I would like...
@ckhthankgod, thanks for the info! I've been telling you for a few years I'd be happy coming back to NY. My girlfriend is, for the time being, thoroughly opposed to living in New York. We have a few years to try to change her mind...
I'm familiar with Delaware Ave. That's definitely somewhere I would like...
Yeah, I believe you and it isn't for everyone. With that said, she could change.
Is she from SC? It could be a matter of weather and social/cultural aspects, but that is just a guess on my part.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 07-02-2016 at 04:39 PM..
I would also say that the Charleston-Columbia regional mash up is more important than the Syracuse-Albany region in terms of state importance due to being the two biggest major cities in SC. I'm not sure on a national level though.
Also, what may be an incentive with Syracuse if schools become a factor is this program that the school district is a part of: Home - Say Yes to Education It may be a matter of if the district could work for you, as it has the things that urban SD's has. There also charter and private options in the Albany-Syracuse region that may work, like Green Tech in Albany or the Syracuse Academy of Science.
Just an aside, in terms of a smaller metro, what about Harrisburg? I ask because its proximity to Baltimore, DC and Philadelphia could be appealing. It also has pretty diverse suburbs, with some feeding into decent to good schools(Susquehanna Township, Central Dauphin, Middletown, etc). Its COL is just under the national average and its location also allows you to go anywhere on/near the East Coast within a reasonable distance. York, Lancaster, Lebanon, Carlisle and Chambersburg are small, diverse cities nearby as well.
We have a baby due in February, so schools will become a factor by our ~2020 move. Personally, I know you can find a good education anywhere, and I don't know how she feels about that. I don't need my child to go the "best" schools...
She's from North Carolina, and she's never been north of DC. I had an aunt who lived in Harrisburg until 2012, and I went to visit her and her family a few times. I like Harrisburg, but wouldn't live there. Basically--and I realize this could change--I'll be looking to live in cities that I have some connection to, that mean something to me personally. I can prosper anywhere. While I'd rather not live in a smaller city less than a million, I am open to the four here, and my potential options are broken down by size:
•500,000-1,000,000: Syracuse, Charleston, Columbia, Albany
•1,000,000-2,000,000: Richmond, Norfolk
•2,000,000-4,000,000: Charlotte
•4,000,000+: Washington
And we have plenty of time to further specify our personal interests. I think she likes Richmond but she doesn't adore it how I do, of course, and she finds the Virginia too "northern" for her liking (lol I've told her just wait until she actually goes up north). You're correct, in that it is very much a cultural thing with her...
We have a baby due in February, so schools will become a factor by our ~2020 move. Personally, I know you can find a good education anywhere, and I don't know how she feels about that. I don't need my child to go the "best" schools...
She's from North Carolina, and she's never been north of DC. I had an aunt who lived in Harrisburg until 2012, and I went to visit her and her family a few times. I like Harrisburg, but wouldn't live there. Basically--and I realize this could change--I'll be looking to live in cities that I have some connection to, that mean something to me personally. I can prosper anywhere. While I'd rather not live in a smaller city less than a million, I am open to the four here, and my potential options are broken down by size:
•500,000-1,000,000: Syracuse, Charleston, Columbia, Albany
•1,000,000-2,000,000: Richmond, Norfolk
•2,000,000-4,000,000: Charlotte
•4,000,000+: Washington
And we have plenty of time to further specify our personal interests. I think she likes Richmond but she doesn't adore it how I do, of course, and she finds the Virginia too "northern" for her liking (lol I've told her just wait until she actually goes up north). You're correct, in that it is very much a cultural thing with her...
I get that and if you aren't familiar, then you may think that Syracuse and Albany are like NYC. You can actually get a relatively affordable single family homes(even with the property taxes) within city limits with some land, let alone the suburbs. For instance, this street view is in the previously mentioned Salt Springs neighborhood: https://maps.google.com/?q=301-399%2...86&hl=en&gl=us
I forgot to mention that there is a dentist in that neighborhood and I think she went to Howard's Dental school. I think the same goes for a guy that is a dentist near Westcott Street. About Dr. Martin - Syracuse Smiles
Anyway, hopefully she could take a visit and that would help to form an answer about possibly considering either one of the NY areas.
I'm surprised she doesn't like Richmond given its location, growth and things going on. Tidewater/Hampton Roads may be a happy medium given that it is very close to NC and its size.
Also, what about Raleigh or Durham?
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 07-04-2016 at 12:20 PM..
I don't get the comparison. Albany and Syracuse aren't that close to each other, and aren't really closely related, and same goes for Columbia and Charleston.
Really none of the four cities are that similar to one another. It's more like "let's compare a few random Northern small cities with a few random Southern small cities".
And Syracuse is a mid-sized private university. It isn't similar to the USC in Columbia, which is the largest state university in SC. They don't even have similar strengths.
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