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You're exaggerating the size of the Chicago neighborhoods and underestimating the size of the TL + Chinatown. Chinatown and the Tenderloin combined would beat all of those Chicago neighborhoods in terms of population and population density, and would be nearly exactly the same size as Rogers Park geographically. It would also be 71% as large geographically as Uptown, and 53% as large geographically as Lincoln Park or Lakeview...not 1/3 of the size.
the Tenderloin + Chinatown: 1.7 sq. mi./pop. 125,641 Rogers Park: 1.8 sq. mi./pop.63,484 Uptown: 2.4 sq. mi./pop. 63,551 Lincoln Park: 3.2 sq. mi./pop. 64,320 Lake View: 3.2 sq. mi./pop. 94,817
the stats are from wikipedia (and the census by extension).
I wasn't exaggerating the size... there are neighborhoods in Chicago over 7 sq miles. I was speaking in terms of the "average" neighborhood is probably 3-4. I was going off the numbers another poster suggested.
I wasn't exaggerating the size... there are neighborhoods in Chicago over 7 sq miles. I was speaking in terms of the "average" neighborhood is probably 3-4. I was going off the numbers another poster suggested.
I was talking about the hoods you specifically mentioned, where you stated they were 3-4 square miles, even though some were under 3, and none were close to 4. As for the rest of that post, i edited it with some new info.
I think you are quite right though, there are quite a few more interesting suburbs say in the Bay area...a few dozen I would say with cool eclectic/hip downtowns, and maybe only a handful in Chicagoland that would ever fancy my interest. Both metros have a lot to offer probably almost equal, but Chicago has a lot more *urban* oriented things to offer than the Bay Area quite easily. While Bay Area has a bunch of quirky and rich towns allover the place, but you never get that Big Metropolis feeling you get while in Chicago, at least I never did. That is probably maybe why you got wore down as the city and fringe areas go on for a long ways, takes much longer to get out of the city than in SF where it is quite quick and you are in nature already. In SF you can get on a high hill and easily see all the nature and other small towns surrounding you... while in Chicago you see the Chicago urban grid going for as far as the eye can see.
You maybe right, however there is always a quality of life issue in this too.
People I think have better emotional health when they are a quick trip to a wild area such as a mountain park in california that the cities bump up against.
The recreational activities and the climate that is conduvice to much more healthy fruits and vegetable growing can lead to a better quality of life, while at the same time being quite urban.
You're exaggerating the size of the Chicago neighborhoods and underestimating the size of the TL + Chinatown. Chinatown and the Tenderloin combined would beat all of those Chicago neighborhoods in terms of population and population density, and would be nearly exactly the same size as Rogers Park geographically. It would also be 71% as large geographically as Uptown, and 53% as large geographically as Lincoln Park or Lakeview...not 1/3 of the size.
the Tenderloin + Chinatown: 1.7 sq. mi./pop. 125,641 Rogers Park: 1.8 sq. mi./pop.63,484 Uptown: 2.4 sq. mi./pop. 63,551 Lincoln Park: 3.2 sq. mi./pop. 64,320 Lake View: 3.2 sq. mi./pop. 94,817
the stats are from wikipedia (and the census by extension).
edit: those population figures i got for SF's Chinatown seem off though now that i think about it. The source is the SF Chronicle, who credit their info to the 2000 census...but the only way for them to have gotten the population and size for Chinatown that they did (1.34 square miles and 100,000 people), is to have included more than just Chinatown, such as parts of nob hill, Russian hill, north beach, and telegraph hill. That's the only way i can get similar numbers using a census tract map at least. I'd guess the area that most people actually are referring to when they say "Chinatown" has maybe 30,000 people, and it's definitely not 1.34 square miles (but to be fair, many of the extra areas that the Chronicle included in "Chinatown" do have large Chinese populations themselves, so i guess you could unofficially consider them parts of Chinatown...still misleading though). But the point remains that if you took that 1.34 square mile "Chinatown" section of SF, and added the Tenderloin to it, you would get those numbers i posted in the list above. I guess the real point is: of course overall Chicago has a larger amount of very dense areas, but SF has large areas of very high density as well.
But I think in total this is splitting hairs - SF has a very small uber dense area - on a continuum it is rather small when comapred to Chicago - And rediculously small when compared to NYC which has 80-100K+ neighborhoods over 10s of square miles continuously
^^ just a feeling, of being "away" from the hustle and bustle of the city. Streets are calm and quiet.. often without many stores around.
I ran the numbers for LA neighborhoods (just using LA Times neighborhoods, not census tracts) above 20K and it's almost 500K people in less than 17 square miles, for almost 30,000 people per square mile.
I'd be interested in what other cities have in a contiguous area above 20k.
^^ just a feeling, of being "away" from the hustle and bustle of the city. Streets are calm and quiet.. often without many stores around.
I ran the numbers for LA neighborhoods (just using LA Times neighborhoods, not census tracts) above 20K and it's almost 500K people in less than 17 square miles, for almost 30,000 people per square mile.
I'd be interested in what other cities have in a contiguous area above 20k.
Quick and dirty I found 39.2 square miles on the north side of Chicago that had over 20K. The industrial areas/downtown split it off from the other areas on the south/southwest sides.
After looking at LA's neighborhoods listed by population density and determining the statistic I posted above, and taking into consideration Chicago's, I'm thinking that the 20,000 figure is actually pretty good for describing something, I'm just not sure what that something is.
All of the neighborhoods in LA with densities over 20,000 are mostly multi-story multifamily housing. The cutoff happens around West Hollywood (with 19k), which although being majority apartment buildings, are only mostly in the 2-3 story range.
I don't know about other people, but I would definitely call West Hollywood "urban," just not "very urban." WeHo also has very small households (something like 60% of them are one person only).
I think a good cutoff (as good as any..) for urban and suburban is probably around 17 or 18k like kidphilly was saying. Anything in the 17k range is probably mostly single-family homes.
Quick and dirty I found 39.2 square miles on the north side of Chicago that had over 20K. The industrial areas/downtown split it off from the other areas on the south/southwest sides.That 39.2 square miles had 929,912 people.
That is interesting.
Because what breaks up dense neighborhoods in Chicago are unerused industrial corridors. In LA, its steep hillsides that are not suitable to build densely.
Actually^^ if you look at a population map it's almost exactly the same. Downtown and the surrounding industrial areas split up the high density areas north/northwest of downtown with the high density areas south of downtown.
Interesting that LA and Chicago are so similar in that regard, especially considering that the north/northwest area in LA is also considerably denser (and wealthier--though nowhere near the difference in Chicago) than the area south of downtown.
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