How can anyone argue Philly is more urban than San Francisco? (living, state)

[kidphilly]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

Actually I wasnt sure how we'd stack up and what happened...I discovered that these neighborhoods are ALL connected:

Neighborhood, City, Population Per Square Mile
Oak Tree Neighborhood, Oakland 34,447
Gold Coast Neighborhood, Oakland 29,212
Telegraph Ave neighborhood, Berkeley 28,188
Adams Point Neighborhood, Oakland 26,632
Clinton Neighborhood, Oakland 25,677
Ivy Hill Neighborhood, Oakland 22,866
St Elizabeth Neighborhood, Oakland 21,327
Merritt Neighborhood, Oakland 19,957
Harrington Neighborhood, Oakland 19,951
Patten Neighborhood, Oakland 19,950
Highland Terrace Neighborhood, Oakland 18,625
Allendale Neighborhood, Oakland 18,880
Seminary Neighborhood, Oakland 17,899
Tuxedo Neighborhood, Oakland 17,502
Rancho San Antonio Neighborhood, Oakland 17,290
School Neighborhood, Oakland, CA 16,916
Hawthorne Neighborhood, Oakland 16,752
Meadow Brook Neighborhood, Oakland 16,772
Grand Lake Neighborhood, Oakland 16,716
Bella Vista Neighborhood, Oakland 16,713
Chinatown Neighborhood, Oakland 16,554
Southside Neighborhood, Berkeley 16,438
Fremont Neighborhood, Oakland 16,096
Oakland Ave/Harrison St Neighborhood, Oakland 15,980
Cox Neighborhood, Oakland 15,674
Hegenberger Neighborhood, Oakland 15,406
Fairfax Business Neighborhood, Oakland 15,242
Sausal Creek Neighborhood, Oakland 15,138
Peralta Hacienda Neighborhood, Oakland 14,811
Jefferson Neighborhood, Oakland 14,807
Wentworth-Holland Neighborhood, Oakland 14,794
Elmwood Neighborhood, Berkeley 14,603
Webster Neighborhood, Oakland 14,294
College Avenue Neighborhood, Berkeley 14,125
Eastmont Neighborhood, Oakland 14,002
Upper Peralta Creek Neighborhood, Oakland 13,959
East Peralta Neighborhood, Oakland 13,948
Highland Park Neighborhood, Oakland 13,705
Gourmet Ghetto Neighborhood, Berkeley 13,494
Castlemont Neighborhood, Oakland 13,414
Arroyo Viejo Neighborhood, Oakland 13,404
Cleveland Heights Neighborhood, Oakland 13,354
Fairfax Neighborhood, Oakland 12,993
Civic Center Neighborhood, Oakland, 12,856
North Neighborhood, Berkeley 12,815
Old Oakland Neighborhood, Oakland 12,280
Gaskill Neighborhood, Oakland 12,276
Iveywood Neighborhood, Oakland 12,136
Paradise Park neighborhood, Oakland 11,886
Piedmont Avenue Neighborhood, Oakland 11,798
South Berkeley neighborhood, Berkeley 11,749
Havenscourt Neighborhood, Oakland 11,639
North Stonehurst Neighborhood, Oakland 11,625
Farelly Pond Neighborhood, San Leandro 11,315
Central Berkeley Neighborhood, Berkeley 11,280
Fairview Park Neighborhood, Oakland 11,213
San Pablo Gateway Neighborhood, Oakland 11,151
Santa Fe Neighborhood, Oakland 11,132
Upper Laurel Neighborhood, Oakland 11,117
Laurel Neighborhood, Oakland 10,973
Longfellow Neighborhood, Oakland 10,896
Downtown Neighborhood, Albany 10,888
Las Palmas Neighborhood, Oakland 10,838
Bushrod Neighborhood, Oakland 10,810
Eastshore Neighborhood, San Leandro 10,738
Lakeshore Neighborhood, Oakland 10,736
Upper Dimond Neighborhood, Oakland 10,626
Creekside Neighborhood, San Leandro 10,393

Im certain this by itself beats most cities.

And we are all very excited for you

[Dub King]

Fine, because maybe Philadelphians prefer living like this if they are in the suburbs: philly - Google Maps


That would be 11 miles out

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

Find me somewhere 13 miles from Downtown Philadelphia that has 10,000+ppsm and is desirable.

No one answered me the first 10 times I asked so I had to look for myself...and come up with a bunch of suburban areas that are lovely but nothing like this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...lyspics629.jpg

[Nineties Flava]

Originally Posted by grapico

Yes urban metropolis, definitely the correct word.
I was going to say to include Daly City in the stats, as well as South SF, almost all the way to the airport... Plus will probably bring the "Core" to a million and change w/o adding much.
Those definitely extend SF. I have been in Daly City and didn't know it, I thought I was still in SF.
But yes, you hit the nail on the head...that is almost the entire basis of my posts that I am getting at, metropolis is a very good word for that. Big city is incorrect, as SF feels like a "bigger city" than say Houston or Phoenix. Don't want to bring them into this...but just using as an example of cities with significantly bigger populations on paper. And will still have similar culture/arts/amenities to Boston or Philadelphia or wherever. And of course much bigger in feel than San Jose to your south.

SF is the biggest small city in America... most cities that are bigger than it in population and/or size do not hold a candle to it in terms of urbanity and amenities associated with big cities. What makes it stand out beyond that is that there are also urban amenities outside of SF... Oakland for example has a huge art and music scene for its size and has always attracted world class performers... Dave Chappelle for example is performing tomorrow at the Oakland Yoshi's.

[Nineties Flava]

Originally Posted by Dub King

Fine, because maybe Philadelphians prefer living like this if they are in the suburbs: philly - Google Maps


That would be 11 miles out

The Bay has no shortage of that as well, and you can get it much closer to San Francisco... it's called Marin County.

[Nineties Flava]

Originally Posted by Dub King

Wayne is beautiful & quaint in a way that is hard to find in California. It goes both ways.

This is Wayne right?

wayne pa - Google Maps

I wouldn't say it's difficult to get that in the Bay Area:

Atherton, CA - Google Maps

[kidphilly]

Originally Posted by Nineties Flava

This is Wayne right?

wayne pa - Google Maps

I wouldn't say it's difficult to get that in the Bay Area:

Atherton, CA - Google Maps

Yes agree there are simlar places actually.

This thread has ecome mostly stupid at this point and i have played my role. Wayne is not at all why philly feels more urban though; absolutely the burbs here.

but to me this what i think of when i think of Wayne - the street you showed is basically a lot of main line sububan housing so to speak

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=wayne+...335.77,,0,2.39

[Dub King]

It's true. Brain hurts. Swearing off this thread.

Originally Posted by kidphilly

Yes agree there are simlar places actually.

This thread has ecome mostly stupid at this point and i have played my role. Wayne is not at all why philly feels more urban though; absolutely the burbs here.

but to me this what i think of when i think of Wayne - the street you showed is basically a lot of main line sububan housing so to speak

wayne pa - Google Maps

[Nineties Flava]

I think the main point from Bay Areans on this thread is that while Philly is obviously a bigger city than San Francisco, San Francisco can feel bigger than Philly when you're inside it despite not actually being bigger.

[kidphilly]

Originally Posted by Nineties Flava

I think the main point from Bay Areans on this thread is that while Philly is obviously a bigger city than San Francisco, San Francisco can feel bigger than Philly when you're inside it despite not actually being bigger.

Again i will disagree - SF feels larger than it is, it by no means feels larger than Philly, that is honest. It can feel similar in certain respects but knowing both I would say you would definately understand why Philly feels larger than SF which also feels like a larger "city" to me, one of the few in the country that feels this way to me personally.

Honestly Philly is the next closest city on feel and size to Chicago which obviously feels bigger than either of these because it is. I really dont think you understand the size of Philly. Philly gets overshawdowed on much perception, anywhere else in the country it would stick out like a sore thumb in terms of how large it feels.

But your point is really to me the crux of this, the SF perception is a little overblown in many ways. The feel on the size of the city is just one of those aspects.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by kidphilly

And we are all very excited for you

Actually it will serve me well in future debates Im sure.

Originally Posted by kidphilly

Parts of Trenton or Wilmington most definately fit.
I would also argue Wayne or even a West Chester offer this though are part of larger municpality that includes both urban and suburban elements. The lancaster ave corrider absolutely has a linear extention of such desnity and desirabilty (actually some of the wealthiest enclaves in Amercia) but on the muncipaility will show lower density because of how the boundaries are drawn). A case where reality is not in line with statistics.

Thanks for the info.

1. Trenton is not part of the Philadelphia MSA or CSA

2. I went through Wilmington and found a few.

The others I'll take your word for it.

Now, does that mean we're even?

No, because then I will cancel out every nice neighborhood there with one here and see who has the most left over. And then there's other issues that have to be reconciled like the cohesiveness of said neighborhoods to a larger area that is also dense for an extended distance--and so on...

That would take too long tho. LOL.