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Chill out. I'm not even comparing downtowns here (go back and reread my posts). I'm comparing areas of similar structural/population density that are contiguous and cover large areas, namely: the tenderloin in SF, the historic part of DT LA, and parts of Manhattan.
The part of DT LA i'm talking about is the historic area, as i already specified before. It's completely packed with midrises mostly dating from the early to mid 1900s, and it has lots of street activity...you do realize this part of DT LA stands in for NYC all the time in TV/movies, right? I have not seen anything like it in Philly, and I'm not aware of anything like it to the same extent in any other city besides SF and NYC.
Also, I NEVER said DT SF and LA are the same size as DT NYC (remember, i'm not even comparing downtowns), that's all in your mind. Obviously lower/midtown manhattan blows away both SF and LA for size. If i were actually comparing downtowns though, than I would say that Chicago, Philly, SF, and maybe Boston are most similar to DT NYC. Chicago for size/height, the others for density and vibe (i haven't been to Chicago, can't say what the vibe is like there).
You obviously have never been to the part of DT LA I'm referring to, if you think it's that crazy for me to make a comparison to NYC. As someone who HAS been there, as well as to NYC, i stand by what i've been saying. Would some pictures help you understand?
here:
All sizes | 2007 01 05 Los Angeles 01 | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/buckeyenative001/4202127814/sizes/o/in/photostream/ - broken link)
All sizes | Broadway in Los Angeles | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/daveofcali/411178188/sizes/z/in/photostream/ - broken link)
All sizes | Jewlery District Orpheum | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/xandromeda/2290591962/sizes/z/in/photostream/ - broken link)
All sizes | Broadway, Los Angeles | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/sir_baldilocks_of_the_glen/313577063/sizes/l/in/photostream/ - broken link)
All sizes | Broadway, Los Angeles | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/dclemm/2276273588/sizes/l/in/photostream/ - broken link)
It's nice to see you took a dig at the census tract stats i've posted in this and other threads. I know you don't like that downtown LA and downtown SF have much higher peak densities than center city Philly, but those are the facts. And by the way, all of the those densest tracts for SF are CONTIGUOUS, meaning you can turn the corner and keep seeing blocks and blocks of extremely high density areas that directly rival those found on Manhattan (of course it's only about 5% of what exists on Manhattan though). The same cannot be said for Philly, or LA for that matter...at least not to the extent as SF or NYC.
I sometimes find myself thinking the same thing towards you.
First those images dont really look like Manhattan to me and there are equally if not more similar views in Philly. Also I believe Philly has been a film stand in 7 times in the last 9 months for NYC - though overall not as many films are done when compared to LA.
They are vibrant blocks, not continuity. The same as SF. Yes there is a few sq block area in SF with that density. To compare to the miles of this dvelopment in NYC is silly. Like I said "it felt like NYC until I turned the corner, its just not the same.
You can continue to believe you have NYC jr in SF, I dont see it, SF feels way more like Philly (oh the horror I am sure) on denisty, size, and vibrancy than it does like NYC - I dont see how any rational person can make the other argument. I do understand your point on some of these being closest, but none match - they are more equals on the feel, size and vibrancy (including Chicgao though it is larger than the others, maybe the Mag Mile gives the brifest
And yes I have read your posts and you did it again here but but but but it is just like NYC - look at this block or this .2 sq mile area, give me a break. I dont care about some these density areas. The tenderloin is by no means my favorite area of SF to begin with; actually the densest tracts in Manhattan are not my favorite there either.
I question how much time you have really spent in Philly when you make these comments and I absolutely have been in DT LA, but not nealy as much as in SF.
Also I like LA (and SF very much) and having said i have yet see areas of LA that are consistently as vibrant and urban as Philly in LA. It is a huge expanse and dense, as noted briefest Manhattan feel of them all but loses it quickly and just of of michigan)
Honestly LA like Philly has many of these such buildings from the early to mid 1900s. I think you might be surpised if you go past, Market, JFK, and Arch where the newer more modern skyscrapers are
I think the biggest difference in urbanity out of the 2 is that you are bound to find more upscale activities to do in Philly than you would in DTLA. Part of this reason is that for many decades LA neglected DT and focused on the westside, it is just now barely attracting people away from the usual more active westside, Phillys DT really has no other areas to compete with as with LA where there's so much to do everywhere.
I think the biggest difference in urbanity out of the 2 is that you are bound to find more upscale activities to do in Philly than you would in DTLA. Part of this reason is that for many decades LA neglected DT and focused on the westside, it is just now barely attracting people away from the usual more active westside, Phillys DT really has no other areas to compete with as with LA where there's so much to do everywhere.
I think this is a fair point in some ways though to suggest there is nothing in Philly outside of the DT is pretty ill-informed. Agree though there are more and better areas in LA at a higher level of vibrance outside of the DT when compared to Philly (though they do exist here). But the two metros function a little different and as a generalized comment your points are valid/make sense...
For as much as LA offers (and overall if has more than Philly offers) no single area offers the concentration of amenities that Center City currently offers.
Also DTLA has good bones, it actually in some ways to me by construct may be the closest in setup and build composition to Philly of any other DT in the US, it to me could be a great DT and seems to be making strides in that direction. Honestly in some ways if LA develops a DT similar to Philly as an example coupled with all the great places on the periphery of the DT is will be an even bigger monster. All those cool areas, I mean to me Santa Monica and a Center City Philly like area, well would work very well by me personally. I would love to see DTLA become more like DT SF, or Philly or Boston and it really seems to be heading that way, and to your point it would be another destination (or enhanced destination) and would be great, odlly this type of neighborhood might even give LA more credibility to the city devotees...
Am curious on the subway contruction, will there/is ther plans to build a heavy rail line that will connect Santa Monica and DTLA?
Am curious on the subway contruction, will there/is ther plans to build a heavy rail line that will connect Santa Monica and DTLA?
That's the million dollar question. It's still TBD, and the plans are indeed there. But so far, the Exposition light rail line from dtla to santa monica is the only connecting rail service under construction.
I think this is a fair point in some ways though to suggest there is nothing in Philly outside of the DT is pretty ill-informed. Agree though there are more and better areas in LA at a higher level of vibrance outside of the DT when compared to Philly (though they do exist here). But the two metros function a little different and as a generalized comment your points are valid/make sense...
For as much as LA offers (and overall if has more than Philly offers) no single area offers the concentration of amenities that Center City currently offers.
Also DTLA has good bones, it actually in some ways to me by construct may be the closest in setup and build composition to Philly of any other DT in the US, it to me could be a great DT and seems to be making strides in that direction. Honestly in some ways if LA develops a DT similar to Philly as an example coupled with all the great places on the periphery of the DT is will be an even bigger monster. All those cool areas, I mean to me Santa Monica and a Center City Philly like area, well would work very well by me personally. I would love to see DTLA become more like DT SF, or Philly or Boston and it really seems to be heading that way, and to your point it would be another destination (or enhanced destination) and would be great, odlly this type of neighborhood might even give LA more credibility to the city devotees...
Am curious on the subway contruction, will there/is ther plans to build a heavy rail line that will connect Santa Monica and DTLA?
I never did say there's nothing to do, all I said was Philly really don't got any competition the way DTLA does, as far as the subway goes idk, but all. I gotta say is that the politicians need to extend a line through the central area of south central I know there's some brt on the 110 but its not cutting it
I never did say there's nothing to do, all I said was Philly really don't got any competition the way DTLA does, as far as the subway goes idk, but all. I gotta say is that the politicians need to extend a line through the central area of south central I know there's some brt on the 110 but its not cutting it
Another thing I notice about these politicians out here is that they're willing to invest in subways for the affluent areas but give us out here LRT which on many intersections is at grade. Same thing can be said of traffic issues, bike lanes, South Central always getting neglected
this is a tough one because LA i very urban, but there's no real city infrastructure. it reminds me of north jersey or long island. very urban but suburban to the core
if NYC is an urban jungle, LA is a suburban jungle, it caters to celebrities who like large yards, trees, comfort...
i don't see a A train in LA call me crazy
Last edited by john_starks; 09-21-2011 at 10:30 PM..
this is a tough one because LA i very urban, but there's no real city infrastructure. it reminds me of north jersey or long island. very urban but suburban to the core
if NYC is an urban jungle, LA is a suburban jungle
I agree but again LA is a victim of its size, people judge will judge this city on areas that are usually more suburban in nature and sometimes judge it on suburbs themselves. If the city limits of LA were to consist of everything from east DTLA to Hollywood south to vernon it would be praised on this site as being one of the most urban cities but obviously with a smaller population, only rivaled by chi, frisco, and philly and ofcourse a tier under new york.
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