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I'm a college student about to graduate. I am having difficulty deciding on whether to move to San Francisco or NYC. I have spent the past 2 summers in NYC, so I am pretty familiar with the area, the climate, atmosphere, etc.
I have never been to San Francisco (or farther West than Chicago for that matter) and I'm a little hesitant to move out there without ever traveled there. I have many friends, however, that have been there before / lived there and say they would love it.
I guess I am wondering what you think were the +s and -s for each city? -- cultural, climate, mass transportation, living expenses, etc. -- I am far too familiar with how expensive NYC is and I have heard SF is a bit on the same scale, but I was wondering if there were any comparisons and also how reasonable it would be to find a nice apartment in a nice area with a decent amount of income.
Of particular interest and importance to me as well is the safety of SF -- being that again any sort of terrorism, crime, etc. Part of the appeal of staying out of NYC is feeling like I am not living in such a targeted area where I feel like something bad will happen at any time, however on the flip side it is the most heavily guarded city in US. Living in a city such as SF that isn't as mentioned in the news as terrorism targets etc make me nervous about how much precautionary measures the city has taken to secure itself.
SF & NY are not the same by any stretch of the imagination. SF like any other city has crime, but I'd say it is reasonably a safe place.
Not sure that SF has taken strong measures to secure its city, now if you are a terrorits I feel rather bothered by my opinion. But SF can barely stop the sell of drugs on the street let alone the homeless guy pissing on the street, so not sure the city has bulked up its efforts of protection. I don't know, I don't see it. But I don't see it being a target area either.
Do you have a strong sense and or leads of employment here or in NY? If you have a job lined up in NY, I'd stay there. If you have a job lined up here come on over. But you should always check out a place before you decide to move clear across country.
NYC & SF: 2 most popular travel destinations in USA!
Both of these cities are great, both have great public transportation, both have art & fashion scenes, both are highly walkable, both have great restaurants, and both are very expensive.
I have lived in both places, go back and forth, &, like you, they were my 2 choices when graduating college - mainly because of walkability factor, which I thought made a city far more charming and both NYC & SF offered that lifestyle. So I sold the car & went....NYC first for 10 years, now in SF over 15 years.
Safety:
Statistics state that SF & NYC about the same in violent crime, but there are more muggings, purse snatchings in NYC - had my purse snatched once when put it down for an instant. SF has double the crime stats for property crime - the gangs from the Mission District bash out windows of cars with baseball bats, graffitti buildings, shoot each other - I've personally seen it all in broad daylight. I've walked by people down & shot, I've seen my car windows bashed out in front of me, and I've had to paint over graffitti on building I managed in Inner Mission District. While I was seeing all that, my sister saw the actual fall of the WTC from her Greenwich Village rooftop! Any big city can be target of terrorism, and natural disasters happen anywhere. Does anyone know the history of New Madrid, MO for instance - worst earthquake ever in US history.
Cimate & Air Quality:
SF area has basically spring weather 9 months of year, 3 months of light rain during winter months. Short drive to visit snow in Tahoe in winter, short drive to summer climate just over hills or to the north or south (Napa, San Jose, Walnut Creek all have summer climates nearby). NYC climate is humid, and not pleasant when humid & hot so must have airconditioning in July & August. Winter, you may be shoveling snow. Nice to be able to go out in summer clothes in NYC in evening - can't ever do that in SF - must always carry jacket, mainly windbreaker. In NYC, in summer, washing my face mid-day, I often would have a dirty washclothe, as the air is so dirty there. In SF, the air is so clean and fresh, and I call it "crisp" too. Think this was maybe my main selling point for choosing SF over NYC...the air quality.
Housing:
NYC apartments are far smaller, far more weird, far less charming than what you get for the equivalent dollar in SF. For example a 250 sq ft "1BR" will be the same rent in NYC as a 750 sq ft 1BR in SF. Often you get noisy steam heat and no A/C in apartment in NYC. Most apartments in SF give your gas furnace, no A/C but don't need A/C.
Walkability:
SF is far more fun to walk around, but NYC is easier - more flat.
Education: Both cities have great universities, but the PS system for both cities suffers. NYC has slightly better PS schools, lesser students per teacher ratios than SF, but facilities tend to be poor in both cities.
Food:
NYC maybe has more fancy and very $$$$ restaurants, but just popping into a place can lead to disappointment. It's hard to find really bad food in SF, much easier in NYC to feel ripped off, and there are far more restaurants in SF where can get something good for less than $10. More food is grown locally near SF, so quality of the actual food is also hands down far better in SF.
Recreation: SF is hands down the winner - hiking, beautiful beaches, mountains, neighborhood walks, staircase walks, redwoods, Lake Tahoe, Santa Cruz, Napa, Yosemite, etc, etc. I felt lost in NYC with few options for weekend escapes - just Fire Island, Long Island, NJ Shore & Lake George - it just wasn't as nice as SF in that regard at all.
Bugs & Rats: NYC has lots of huge roaches and rats. SF has very few bugs that are pests. Everytime in the subway or visiting anyone's backyard in NYC, I just watch the rats running around, not so in SF. When I left my SOHO studio late at night I saw thousands of 2" roaches walking down the street - this about 2 or 3am in morning near the bakery that no less that delivered to all the NYC delis early mornings. Not that mice & rats are not in SF - they are, just many more in NYC.
Arts: NYC is the winner here, but when you do some research, these artists are from all over, some live in small towns. So when you see all the art galleries, not all these artists actually live in NYC - more did in the old days, not now since too expensive.
Entertainment: Both cities have tons of bands and live music, both have dance and theater, but NYC is stronger in dance & theater IMO.
Fashion: NYC rules for fashion, but it is very black, dark in comparison. I showed up from TX wearing all white, bright colors, got some stares. SF is more casual, not nearly same attention is given to fashion. Most jobs are just business casual dress. The GAP is based in SF, so is Bebe, some other designers too. I love seeing the NYC fashion racks being pushed across the streets in mid-town. Still the dressiest people are more in LA, Dallas & Miami.
Jobs: Both cities have entry level jobs at about $15/hr which doesn't cover basic living expenses in want own place to live. You must be highly paid, at a high level in your field, hold a license in a specialty, or you are out of luck. I was paid through employment agencies entry level wages of $20 back in the 1980s in NYC, and normal entry level wages have not improved in the last 3 decades - in fact declined, but cost of living has increased over 4 times in costs since then. Only those with high enough paying jobs are able to live in these cities comfortably these days. I started with 3 roommates in a studio, so if you are determined you may be able. But NYC burned me out after a while - I was working F/T job, weekends as real estate agent, nights, and I got tired of it. Quality of normal life for normal paid people is far better in SF.
Dating Scene: NYC much better, if straight. Know Castro in SF and West Village in NYC holds the strongest gay scene, but I know little about which is better in that regard. I always thought NYC had far friendlier outgoing people than SF maybe because of the large number of entertainers and sales people there. I found the Jewish heritage population also super friendly and still have many Jewish friends from NYC.
Convenience to destinations: NYC closer for trips to Europe, DC, Boston, Carolina Beaches, Miami Beach, Bermuda, Orlando, etc. SF closer to Hawaii, gorgeous national, state & county parks, Vegas, Seattle, San Diego, LA, etc. I miss the shorter flight from NYC to Europe the most. Ski trips to Vermont were lame compared to skiing around Lake Tahoe, short drive from SF.
Overall, unless you are in a NYC specific industry that you absolutely love, I would not live there again. I must say the thing I miss most about NYC is the great friendly people and the talent that exist there. The environment is not that nice though. I just visit now, and own a fractional condo near Rockefeller where plan to stay for Thanksgiving to visit family and friends, but decided that SF bay area is better fit for me, although a bit too crowded now.
Last edited by Jasmine658; 05-15-2011 at 11:28 AM..
Safety:
Statistics state that SF & NYC about the same in violent crime, but there are more muggings, purse snatchings in NYC.
They are not the same at all. SF has a higher violent crime rate than NYC, including robbery (NYC obviously has more crime in raw numbers though, seeing as it has 10 times SF's population):
violent crime rate/robbery rate per 100,000 residents:
2009
NYC - 551.8/221.4
SF - 883.8/422.7 2008
NYC - 580.3/265.9
SF - 1,024.1/514.7 2007
NYC - 613.8/265.0
SF - 1,037.1/513.9 2006
NYC - 637.9/287.9
SF - 1,036.4/517.1 2005
NYC - 673.1/304.6
SF - 959.1/410.9
I was thinking about moving to NYC last summer, probably to live in Brooklyn or Queens, but never went through with it because I didn't feel like the economy was strong enough that I could show up and get a job. From my research it seemed like Manhattan is ridiculously expensive and basically for millionaires even if you just want to rent a 1br in a "nice" area, while Brooklyn or Queens are much more affordable. The nice parts of Brooklyn seemed to be about as expensive as SF, Queens slightly less. Oakland is quite a bit cheaper than SF, 40 to 20% in nice areas.
The subways in NYC is so much better than BART,MUNI, buses hands down. One fare will get you anywhere where you want to go. Best Public Transportation in the country. Not to mention the Pizza and bagels.
Interesting - statistically NYC really has low crime rate now!
Quote:
Originally Posted by rah
They are not the same at all. SF has a higher violent crime rate than NYC, including robbery (NYC obviously has more crime in raw numbers though, seeing as it has 10 times SF's population):
violent crime rate/robbery rate per 100,000 residents:
2009
NYC - 551.8/221.4
SF - 883.8/422.7 2008
NYC - 580.3/265.9
SF - 1,024.1/514.7 2007
NYC - 613.8/265.0
SF - 1,037.1/513.9 2006
NYC - 637.9/287.9
SF - 1,036.4/517.1 2005
NYC - 673.1/304.6
SF - 959.1/410.9
Wow, you are right about that. I went and double checked as I had some old statistics. But on the bright side, crime, especially for the size of NY and SF are extremely low compared to say St. Louis, Detroit, Memphis, Cleveland, Birmingham, Flint, Washington DC, etc. Looks like SF moved way up in crime, though, in comparison to NYC, but NYC is way low now ranked at 269, and SF now up at 130....1 being the worst, and 400 being the best. NYC has become tame now crime wise, and that is good and so glad to see that.
But just outside the bay area, things are worse - Oakland & Richmond in the East Bay scored way up there ranked 5 & 6 worst - wow, that is terrible. I knew they were bad, but that high on the chart I didn't expect. Outside of NYC, Newark & Camden, NJ are high on the chart too.
One thing I do know is that in SF, the crime is concentrated in certain neighborhoods, such as the Tenderloin, Civic Center, Inner Mission and the Bayview Districts. Crime is relatively low if live in any other neighborhood.
Wow, you are right about that. I went and double checked as I had some old statistics. But on the bright side, crime, especially for the size of NY and SF are extremely low compared to say St. Louis, Detroit, Memphis, Cleveland, Birmingham, Flint, Washington DC, etc. Looks like SF moved way up in crime, though, in comparison to NYC, but NYC is way low now ranked at 269, and SF now up at 130....1 being the worst, and 400 being the best. NYC has become tame now crime wise, and that is good and so glad to see that.
But just outside the bay area, things are worse - Oakland & Richmond in the East Bay scored way up there ranked 5 & 6 worst - wow, that is terrible. I knew they were bad, but that high on the chart I didn't expect. Outside of NYC, Newark & Camden, NJ are high on the chart too.
One thing I do know is that in SF, the crime is concentrated in certain neighborhoods, such as the Tenderloin, Civic Center, Inner Mission and the Bayview Districts. Crime is relatively low if live in any other neighborhood.
I'm assuming by outside the Bay Area you mean outside San Francisco. I was just going to add that Oakland is the same deal as San Francisco; the crime is concentrated in certain neighborhoods. Oakland has more crime afflicted neighborhoods, but its good neighborhoods are generally safer than San Francisco's good neighborhoods. Crime in San Francisco is more spread out due to the extremely high density and more-used public transit.
I'm assuming by outside the Bay Area you mean outside San Francisco. I was just going to add that Oakland is the same deal as San Francisco; the crime is concentrated in certain neighborhoods. Oakland has more crime afflicted neighborhoods, but its good neighborhoods are generally safer than San Francisco's good neighborhoods. Crime in San Francisco is more spread out due to the extremely high density and more-used public transit.
Yes, meant "outside of SF but in the bay area". So true, I always felt safe in most areas of Oakland - Montclair, Piedmont Av and Rockridge. Always hiking Tilden, Chabot parks. Always hear it's the Avenues in Oakland where most of the problems are. Lived for several years off Piedmont Av, and off College Av, had zero problems....just annoying raccoons.
The subways in NYC is so much better than BART,MUNI, buses hands down. One fare will get you anywhere where you want to go. Best Public Transportation in the country. Not to mention the Pizza and bagels.
NY Pizza and Bagels, without a doubt, the best in the country. Can't be beat. SF has better Mexican and Chinese food. Agreed on the one fare getting you anywhere, but the NY subways are not as clean OR reliable as BART. NY Subways trains go out of service all the time, or break down, one of the oldest underground train systems in the states.
Was born and raised in Queens NY my first 36 years, moved to SF (lived in Walnut Creek) in 1999 and lived there until 2006. I currently live back in NYC. I prefer SF way more than I do NYC. Just a different way of life in SF, and in California in general. Miss everything about the Bay Area, when I lived in the Bay Area, only missed the Pizza and Bagels from NYC, lol.
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NYC & SF: 2 most popular travel destinations in USA!
