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Location: Cleveland bound with MPLS in the rear-view
5,509 posts, read 11,872,410 times
Reputation: 2501
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiatldal
But that's the problem, Houston and Dallas have been over a million since the 60s. It's funny how people think of places like Kansas City, Seattle and etc of having an identity but historically these are the places the big sunbelt cities grow up with before the sunbelt boom. Houston, Dallas, Atlanta, LA and Miami are not like Austin, Charlotte, Jacksonville, Nashville, phoenix and etc in term of history. The sunbelt boom is consider the boom after the 70s these were major cities before that.
The 60's isn't very long, not compared to many other established U.S. cities.....that's MY point.
Location: Cleveland bound with MPLS in the rear-view
5,509 posts, read 11,872,410 times
Reputation: 2501
Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Palm
The reality is that your idea of maturation of a city is simply based on some level of biasness. Again, your trying very hard to project that you're not basing your criteria on other cities, esp those in the NE. Yet that is exactly what you are basing it on. That is the reality.
As far as sensitivity, when these kinds of subject come up here ( i.e. great city, [one of the] top cities), and Houston is thrown in there, the sensitivity falls on some of you guys, because you find every excuse to why Houston shouldn't, qualify.
You say it's not mature because it lacks historical elements, culture, diversity, etc., etc. All of which is untrue. West says that a city has to basically stop growing to be considered mature. You guys are all over the place.
You are INCREDIBLY sensitive, which is why this f'ing conversation has dragged on for how many pages now??? Totally laid back!
Say what you want about me but kidphilly is probably one of the most knowledged, honest, and down-to-Earth posters in this forum and I respect most/all of what he says. So when he makes points about Houston and its maturity (or lack thereof) maybe you should listen and offer productive feedback and argumentation instead of whining and complaining and misconstruing what people are trying to tell you?
Location: Cleveland bound with MPLS in the rear-view
5,509 posts, read 11,872,410 times
Reputation: 2501
Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Palm
You know, over the of the few years of reading and participating on this forum, I've seen negative comments about how Houston will never be like other cities, when the subject was comparing Houston to other cities, particularly those in the NE or Chicago, and maybe even some across the world. Negatively suggesting that: "It'll never be like those cities" and "it's trying to be like those cities".
Now, in the context and subject of being a great city, and maturity of a city, Houston has to be like those cities, in identity, structure, growth, to qualify. You guys flip-flop.
We're just saying Houston's growth has not upended other "established" or "matured" cities in this country like Boston, Philly, DC, etc just because its population is now as large or larger. We're saying there is MORE to a city's greatness than just population, contrary to what many of you think. We are NOT saying Houston sucks and doesn't have any amenities or cultural identity, but more so saying that it STILL falls behind some of the U.S. "great cities" when it comes to comparing these features.....IN OUR OPINIONS. It's not just a few peoples' opinions either....it's pretty much common perception. Why do you think that is? Probably because we're not entirely wrong.
The GOOD news is that Houston is changing and developing so fast that WHEN all the infrastructure, services and amenities are in place and WHEN those things have truly carved and shaped a STRONG sense of culture and identity, Houston can and WILL be an AMAZING American city! And YES -- I think time and perseverance make most cities just that much better.....like a patina!
Location: Cleveland bound with MPLS in the rear-view
5,509 posts, read 11,872,410 times
Reputation: 2501
Quote:
Originally Posted by HtownLove
you won't convince Kidphilly. His rules are for the sunbelt and exempt Cities in the NE. DC for example is growing almost as fast as Houston and yet he gives it a pass although it is growing lighting fast. So are you saying DC is not mature, or are you going to give it a pass like Kidphilly- bend the rules for certain cities
Cities are not people. Houston has been growing exponentially since the 1880's.
Is it stagnating? far from it, but it is a full fledged city by any means
you have your facts screwed up. Chiatldal is not from Houston.
we don't mean anything. we know that Kidphilly is comparing it to stalled out cities in the NE and midwest. I called a dozen time for an explanation of his meaning, but only got vague results, so I can only go by what he is putting out here and what I see is him comparing cities still growing with stalled out ones.
Read my notes: I gave it a "pass". If you honestly think Houston is as mature or established as Washington D.C. I think you just lost all credibility in this forum for quite a while! I gave it a pass (or an exception), because, unlike math and science, rules or theorems in City-Data can't be proven because they are SUBJECTIVE, and sometimes there are exceptions to the rule (in this case, it's D.C.). Does that mean I'm a hypocrite -- I feel like you think it does.
You are INCREDIBLY sensitive, which is why this f'ing conversation has dragged on for how many pages now??? Totally laid back!
No, not sensitive at all. Seems that you are, though. You didn't have to participate, West.
Quote:
Say what you want about me but kidphilly is probably one of the most knowledged, honest, and down-to-Earth posters in this forum and I respect most/all of what he says.
and that's fine. You have every right to agree with him.
Quote:
So when he makes points about Houston and its maturity (or lack thereof) maybe you should listen and offer productive feedback and argumentation instead of whining and complaining and misconstruing what people are trying to tell you?
Wow. Must've hit a nerve. Not whining nor complaining. I have not misconstrued anything. I asked what makes a city mature. Based on his comments, Houston qualified, plain and simple. We disputed. It happens. We were in a discussion.
KidPhilly doesn't even LIVE in Houston to make some of the commentary that he makes. He even admitted to being passive-aggressive in some of his posts. Therefore, I'm under no obligation that I "should listen" especially if I know that what is being said is inaccurate commentary, about the city that I live in or have lived in.
KidPhilly doesn't even LIVE in Houston to make some of the commentary that he makes. He even admitted to being passive-aggressive in some of his posts. Therefore, I'm under no obligation that I "should listen" especially if I know that what is being said is inaccurate commentary, about the city that I live in or have lived in.
So, what if I were to inform you that it was accurate commentary from him. (because it was and I live here)
Location: Cleveland bound with MPLS in the rear-view
5,509 posts, read 11,872,410 times
Reputation: 2501
No, not sensitive at all. Seems that you are, though. You didn't have to participate, West.
It's my pleasure to participate in this discussion, and back up the common senses when I see them!
and that's fine. You have every right to agree with him.
Do I have your permission now?
Wow. Must've hit a nerve. Not whining nor complaining. I have not misconstrued anything. I asked what makes a city mature. Based on his comments, Houston qualified, plain and simple. We disputed. It happens. We were in a discussion.
This is hardly a normal discussion at this point.
KidPhilly doesn't even LIVE in Houston to make some of the commentary that he makes. He even admitted to being passive-aggressive in some of his posts. Therefore, I'm under no obligation that I "should listen" especially if I know that what is being said is inaccurate commentary, about the city that I live in or have lived in.
So if somebody admits to being passive-aggressive (which has nothing to do with being right or wrong), that makes their arguments invalid or not worth listening to? I don't understand that logic! And if we all have to live in Houston to be able to comment about it, then you have to live in Philly, Minneapolis, Chicago, etc. etc. etc. to have discussions as well -- it's only fair. OR, people can offer their input and still have substantiative evidence toward their arguments.
For what it's worth, I joined the discussion not just to back up KidPhilly's opinion (whom you affectionately call "Kid" -- which totally isn't passive-aggressive, btw), but to instill my belief that populous and fast-growing cities in the Sun Belt are NOT necessarily the most important cities in this country because they are growing and/or big. In fact, some of the reasons those cities are growing so fast ("grass is greener" effect, weather, cheap real estate, low/no taxes, black gold, "city of the week" effect, and so on) are precisely the types of things I loathe in city development and maturity -- like a modern-day Gold Rush -- and I like to learn and discuss why or why not my beliefs make sense. I don't feel this way about all Sun Belt cities and/or its residents, but mainly those that flourish overnight or grow from transient people unhappy with wherever they land that pound their chest as claim to be "great" (the established residents with roots in their city don't bother me one bit, for the most part). I thought this thread was heading in that direction...
[color=black][font=Verdana]We're just saying Houston's growth has not upended other "established" or "matured" cities in this country like Boston, Philly, DC, etc
and yet you guys keep denying that your assessing Houston by NE'stern cities' element. Newsflash: Houston is NOT Philly, Boston, or DC.
Quote:
just because its population is now as large or larger. We're saying there is MORE to a city's greatness than just population, contrary to what many of you think.
And yet again, you've proven me correct by stating that comparisons to NE'stern cities.
In addition, contrary to your assumption and false perception, I never said that the population was the begin and end all to a city's greatness. That's not all that Houston has going for it. That's been the whole dispute with you guys. Houston has culture, diversty, character, an identity, educational offerings, etc. Yet you all deny this. You come back saying that i should listen to you guys. Why? lol I live here.
Quote:
We are NOT saying Houston sucks and doesn't have any amenities or cultural identity, but more so saying that it STILL falls behind some of the U.S. "great cities" when it comes to comparing these features.....IN OUR OPINIONS.
riiight! YOUR OPINIONS. your opinion that you're trying to project as truth or reality. It's just simply your opinions, nothing more, nothing less.
Quote:
It's not just a few peoples' opinions either....it's pretty much common perception. Why do you think that is? Probably because we're not entirely wrong.
there are those that disagree with you as well. It's biased to try to say that Houston has to be like (insert NE city) in order to be considered 'mature'. Or that it has to have growth (or lack growth) to be like said city.
Houston has it's own identity. It's not a NE city. It's not going to grow like a NE city. It's not going be structured like those cities. It has it's own characteristics, along with diversity, culture, other great amenities, industries and population. Why is that such a hard concept for some of you to grasp?
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