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I like that this thread was supposed by about "vibrant" urban cores outside the six originally mentioned(NY, Philly, Boston, DC, San Francisco, Chicago) and instead just became an extended discussion of DC and now NYC.
I know, so does MARC. My point is, this is not about getting to work. This is about creating linear corridors where people can be choice car free households all across the region. High density high-rise's clusters radiating from the city center.
Honestly how many people are going to live in Reston car-free?
I would expect among commuters drivers will out-number PT riders by at least 2 to 1 along the Silver line extension and even car-free people living there as a percentage would be lower
While I think the set up is great in what is going on in DC I dont believe that tysons or reston or Ballston (or SS) for that matter are anywhere near comparable urban living.
You can live car-free in Bryn Mawr or Ardmore etc as easy - These line do run on weekends; just lessor headways - most people can adopt to schedule pretty easily actually
Again I think the Silver Line extension is great but please dont try and make it something it is not
What percentage of people in NOVA (say just Fairfax and Loudon) will live within walking distance of these places?
I know, so does MARC. My point is, this is not about getting to work. This is about creating linear corridors where people can be choice car free households all across the region. High density high-rise's clusters radiating from the city center.
Is that new? When I lived in DC I once commuted to Baltimore via MARC daily during a summer internship, but was bummed to find out that the 2 DC-Bmore lines didn't run on the weekends. Baltimore is a great weekend getaway for DC residents and DC is a great getaway for Bmore residents because the cities are so close yet so incredibly different. So I always thought it was a waste about MARC shutting down on the weekends. If they changed their policy on that, that's fantastic.
So then why did you spend two pages comparing NYC and DC?
You have a real talent for shifting conversations in different directions when the debate's no longer in your favor. It's like debating who's better between Manning and Brady and then saying "This discussion is not really about Manning and Brady. It's about the best QB to ever play for the Washington Redskins."
Ha that is funny, made me chuckle and so true
Really this is a discussion about what suburbs the DC Metro Silver Extenion will best serve.
Will it help the suburbs or Detroit, Akron, or DC the most?
It's not used like a subway, but plenty of people use the LIRR and Metro North to access the city for non-work trips. Most of the outer DC stations like the NYC commuter rail are park and rides.
And how long do you think that is going to last in outer D.C. stations? Every single station on the D.C. metro system has thousands of housing units coming around the station's. Thousands! All growth in every single county with a metro line is funneling all of their growth around their station's. You will see the Rosslyn-Ballston corridor on basically every single metro line. Commuter rail can't do that.
Arlington VA has absorbed almost all of it's growth over the last 20 years around it's metro station's. The whole region is planning to do the same thing over the next 20 years.
Fairfax County with the Silver Line.
Montgomery County with the Red Line.
Arlington and Alexandria VA with the Blue/Yellow and Orange Line.
Prince George's County with the Green, Orange, Blue Line.
I like that this thread was supposed by about "vibrant" urban cores outside the six originally mentioned(NY, Philly, Boston, DC, San Francisco, Chicago) and instead just became an extended discussion of DC and now NYC.
sorry, I have more to say about NYC. Surely you must be interested in details of the LIRR?
So then why did you spend two pages comparing NYC and DC?
You have a real talent for shifting conversations in different directions when the debate's no longer in your favor. It's like debating who's better between Manning and Brady and then saying "This discussion is not really about Manning and Brady. It's about the best QB to ever play for the Washington Redskins."
No, you have reading comprehension problems. So, let's see what I said and how the discussion changed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar
Wow, so D.C. has a higher percentage of jobs concentrated within 10 mile's of downtown D.C. compared to the rest of the MSA than Manhattan in New York does?
Is D.C. the #1 major city in the country for concentrated jobs? With all the housing being added now in the core of the region, crazy to think about what D.C. is becoming.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar
That is interesting. I wonder what D.C.'s would be. I will say that I don't think it would be good if D.C. had most of it's jobs sprawled in the core unless they were within 1 mile of a metro station. With the Silver Line, I don't think any region outside of NYC has a higher percentage of jobs within one mile of rail transit with 3-6 minute peak headways. NYC may not even have D.C. beat in that department. It would be interesting if there was a study for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar
Is this rail only? My interest is for rail rapid transit at the 3-6 minute headway level during peak times. I'm trying to make a comparison for speed and convenience. I think that is just public transportation which is pointless for the comparison I want to see. I was trying to see what the difference between NYC and D.C. would be for going to work waiting only 3-6 minutes at most from arriving at the rail station, getting to work fast on rapid rail transit, and being only 1 mile from your job when you get to the station closest to your job.
Then, you started saying commuter rail is just as good as Metro because it can get you to work. I then said Metro is important for way more than just work. It's a way to give people an option to live an urban lifestyle outside the city. We started talking about this below:
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee
I've never felt headways were as big a deal on commuter rail. Most people have a daily routine and simply show up at the station at a certain time.
The issue I have with Metro is that you have to sit there and endure countless stops. Once you're 20 miles outside of the Downtown core, the ride just gets to be too long with that many stops.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar
Commuter rail can only be used for work. Metro is used for daily life and suburb to suburb commuting 7 days a week. I think for many people, they don't understand why having a subway in the suburbs versus a commuter rail is important to urban life. Mass transit in the suburbs should not be for getting to work. It should be for getting around the region. It should give you an option to get anywhere you need to go as fast as possible living without a car. Without subway line's in the suburbs, you can't build highrise residential buildings in the suburbs and first floor retail like you find in the city. It's really very simple. The only way to make the suburbs more like the city is to build subway system's instead of commuter rail.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar
I know, so does MARC. My point is, this is not about getting to work. This is about creating linear corridors where people can be choice car free households all across the region. High density high-rise's clusters radiating from the city center.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar
I was saying people don't use it like a subway for the most part unless it runs that way. NYC does have a few line's which do run that way, however, most of those station's aren't building highrise's around the stops like a subway would so how many people will be able to walk to the train station like what is happening around subway stations?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar
I think we are talking about different things. I am talking about which is the better rail system to use for a region. What region is built like NYC in America? I'm saying the best form of transit for the rest of the nation is the D.C. metro system hybrid. It allows a region to grow through smart growth as long as the region pushed it in their policy debate. NYC's form only works for NYC. The other 99.9999999% of the country is better off following D.C.'s model. That level of sprawled inner city density over 300 mile's doesn't exist anywhere else.
To sum all this up:
You are looking at this from a "my city is better than yours perspective." I am looking at this from an urban planners "how can I build the best type of city that can be duplicated around the nation to urbanize suburban sprawl and push smart growth across an entire region."
Are they vibrant? Will they be more vibrant with a train running through them?
And lastly MD have you really ever used the commuter rail in some of these other places?
You are the one that makes comments like Commuter rail can only be used for work Totally wrong - in fact in the last ten years when I have used commuter rail it was actually never for work; these trains can be packed on weekends actually.
You do realize that people have concentrated along these lines for decades? This isnt a new thing - maybe a better technology but come on - you are taking a little too far.
If being close to the Metro were so important for all the DC metro residents wouldnt it be way packing in around them today in the burbs?
I find much of what you post as truths to be very academic in nature - sounds great on paper; maybe doesn't quite work out the same in real life
Last edited by kidphilly; 04-14-2014 at 10:52 AM..
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