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The poll is CD biased. There are threads and posts in the Pittsburgh forum about how hard it is to make friends and that the city is extremely cliquish. Compared to other US cities I have lived in, Pittsburgh has the least amount of transplants. This is a city of people who have grown up with each other and only hang out with their family members or childhood friends. Eds, Meds, and Tech jobs make up such a small percentage of the population and most of those positions are held by locals. Calling Pittsburgh Cosmopolitan is a stretch since we are one of the whitest cities in the US.
I haven't been to St. Louis in years, my vote goes to Cleveland.
So is it better in New England where if you are from the area you get "Where did you go to high school?" AND "Where did you go to college?"
I'll take "insular" over insufferable pretense. The east coast and west coast and homogenous culturally. You know everyone's general thoughts and opinions on 90% of everything already. An incredibly dull place enjoyed by dull people.
That's not remotely true of NYC or LA as far as I know (can't comment on other parts as I don't know them as well). The spectrum might have shifted, but the variance is high.
The poll is CD biased. There are threads and posts in the Pittsburgh forum about how hard it is to make friends and that the city is extremely cliquish. Compared to other US cities I have lived in, Pittsburgh has the least amount of transplants. This is a city of people who have grown up with each other and only hang out with their family members or childhood friends. Eds, Meds, and Tech jobs make up such a small percentage of the population and most of those positions are held by locals. Calling Pittsburgh Cosmopolitan is a stretch since we are one of the whitest cities in the US.
I haven't been to St. Louis in years, my vote goes to Cleveland.
I disagree strongly with your assessment of Pittsburgh. Most of the city these days is far from being insular and cliquish. Perhaps your analysis of the city is correct for neighborhoods like Lincoln Place, Esplen, Observatory Hill, Ridgemont, or Carrick, but by and large the city has a healthy number of newcomers.
Yea, somehow it seems like Pittsburgh has been able to develop enough industry so that a decent amount of its graduates stay compared to other rust belt cities. I wouldn't be too surprised if the 2020 census results in a slight net gain in population over the 2010 one.
I'd personally lump Kansas City in with Indianapolis and Columbus. KC might be the least provincial out of those on the poll.
Out of the 5 others, Pittsburgh and Cincinnati strike me as the places a person would least likely get the "why did you move here?" question.
Milwaukee would be my top choice of places to try and fit into regardless. Oddly, being insular might be the key to its charm.
I disagree strongly with your assessment of Pittsburgh. Most of the city these days is far from being insular and cliquish. Perhaps your analysis of the city is correct for neighborhoods like Lincoln Place, Esplen, Observatory Hill, Ridgemont, or Carrick, but by and large the city has a healthy number of newcomers.
Hell, half the people who currently post on the Pittsburgh board are originally from somewhere else, and only two of them have complained out loud about how hard it is to make friends there (and bluecarebear is one of the two). There were several other formerly active members on the Pittsburgh board who were from somewhere else, but ultimately stopped posting because they couldn't stand the perpetual negativity and topic derailment by a handful of members (bluecarebear among them), not because they hated Pittsburgh and couldn't make friends. And for being so white and backwards, the three regular black members on the Pittsburgh board don't seem to be unhappy living there. One of the three is even a transplant from somewhere else.
I understand that different cities have different personalities, and some cities just might not be a good fit for some people, but between the eight people I've seen on the Pittsburgh board since 2010 who have openly and stridently disliked living there, only two of them have had adult social skills. The rest of them have not. In fact, one of them is so maladjusted that he's had a double-digit number of replicate accounts banned here since his original account was banned three years ago, but that says more about him than where he lives. If people hate it that bad there, then they can always shut the **** up and leave. Besides, leaving must be worth the effort if everywhere else is so much better.
.... For these lower growth Midwest/Rust Belt metros:
-Kansas City
-Indianapolis
Which are most open to outsiders and least provincial?
Kansas City and Indianapolis are not "lower growth."
Kansas City and Indianapolis cities/metros are experiencing healthy growth.
All the other city/metros are VERY low growth or not growing at all - they are declining. -Cincinnati
-Cleveland
-St. Louis
-Milwaukee
-Pittsburgh
St Louis is easily the most insular, provincial, fuddy-duddy in the USA didn't grow at all last year. It's central suburb Clayton MO has taken over as the epicenter for office, shopping and living in the STL metro. #stickaforkinit Census: St. Louis region didn't grow in 2016 | Metro | stltoday.com
Cleveland, Milwaukee and Pittsburgh are spiraling downward.
Kansas City has very good net in-migration from Dallas, Denver, Saint Louis and California.
KC has a young, artistic, wild west feel with old-skool brick bones and interesting Districts.
KC's downtown has more residents than any other city in the midwest (outside of CHI & Minn) and will grow another 20% in the next 3 years.
I agree, but there's a fine line between unique culture and "where did you go to high school?"
The Post-Dispatch actually just did an article on this. It's essentially playing up this guy's friend meet up operation, but it hits some key ideas. I personally thought this quote can be pretty on the money sometimes: “This is the friendliest city in America where no one wants to be your friend.” Why is it so hard to make friends in St. Louis? | Lifestyles | stltoday.com
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjimmy24
So is it better in New England where if you are from the area you get "Where did you go to high school?" AND "Where did you go to college?"
I'll take "insular" over insufferable pretense. The east coast and west coast and homogenous culturally. You know everyone's general thoughts and opinions on 90% of everything already. An incredibly dull place enjoyed by dull people.
Metro St. Louis actually has a relatively high level of college graduates. The high school question is primarily asked for 2 reasons: 1) to see if locally you and the othe person might know someone in common since so many people go away for school, and 2) to ascertain where in the metro you're from and your family's economic status. I believe that St. Louis still has one of the top 10 highest levels of private school enrollment in the country, so that's essentially what's leading to #2.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rumba77
St Louis is easily the most insular, provincial, fuddy-duddy in the USA didn't grow at all last year. It's central suburb Clayton MO has taken over as the epicenter for office, shopping and living in the STL metro. #stickaforkinit
You tried it, but you failed. Spectacularly. Let me help you though:
1) Downtown St. Louis, and by far the city as a whole, still has far more jobs than Clayton.
2) Clayton doesn't have the West County Center, the Galleria, Plaza Frontenac, etc, so no, it is not the metro's shopping destination.
3) Clayton has a population of 15 to 16k. A tiny fraction of metro St. Louisans live there, and the majority of the region's top bars, restaurants, and cultural amenities aren't located there either. Clayton certainly has some nice places to eat, but the city alone has Clayton beat by a landslide.
You tried it, but you failed. Spectacularly. Let me help you though:
Again though, you tried.
Allow me to debunk your diatribe with the facts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PerseusVeil
1) Downtown St. Louis, and by far the city as a whole, still has far more jobs than Clayton.
Not by much and the reality is the jobs pay more in Clayton and businesses are actually BUILDING new office space so very shortly Clayton will have more jobs than downtown STL (which is completely stagnant). You're down by 10 after the first quarter!
Quote:
Originally Posted by PerseusVeil
2) Clayton doesn't have the West County Center, the Galleria, Plaza Frontenac, etc, so no, it is not the metro's shopping destination.
Neither does downtown STL! And Clayton is STILL a FAR better shopping destination than downtown STL is! It's half-time and now you're down by 20.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PerseusVeil
3) Clayton has a population of 15 to 16k. A tiny fraction of metro St. Louisans live there, and the majority of the region's top bars, restaurants, and cultural amenities aren't located there either. Clayton certainly has some nice places to eat, but the city alone has Clayton beat by a landslide.
BUT even a TINIER fraction of STL's residents live in downtown STL!
So Clayton is the preferred choice over downtown STL for residential with MORE new high-rises on the way.
With what? Exaggeration and flat out lies? Please.
Quote:
Not by much and the reality is the jobs pay more in Clayton and businesses are actually BUILDING new office space so very shortly Clayton will have more jobs than downtown STL (which is completely stagnant). You're down by 10 after the first quarter!
You're backing your pay claim up with what exactly? Additionally, downtown St. Louis has 80,000 jobs to downtown Clayton's 39,000. 2 new office towers were also announced for downtown St. Louis earlier this year.
Quote:
Neither does downtown STL! And Clayton is STILL a FAR better shopping destination than downtown STL is! It's half-time and now you're down by 20.
Neither is considered to be a shopping destination in the greater metro area, but by all means do remain confused.
Quote:
BUT even a TINIER fraction of STL's residents live in downtown STL!
So Clayton is the preferred choice over downtown STL for residential with MORE new high-rises on the way.
GAME OVER
Actually, downtown St. Louis' population is growing and has been for years. Downtown St. Louis has nearly 9,000 residents to downtown Clayton's 1,100. The greater downtown area based on Census tracts has more than 17,000 people as well, which is more than the entire suburb of Clayton. The vast majority of Clayton's residents also live in single family homes, not in residential highrises.
You tried.
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