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Metro Hartford has a median income about $20,000 higher than Rochester, while housing isn’t actually expensive either.
Rochester probably has more high paying jobs than Providence but overall is much closer to it.
Plus more importantly I think the cities both have more cultural/entertainment vibrancy than Hartford despite their economy and the fact that their Downtowns actually have many fewer 9-5 workers (like 1/2 as many)
Hartford is kind of sad because it should be easy to fix because it’s not like everyone works in the suburbs and all the moneys gone.
Dayton is another good one. Especially with its relationship with Cincinnati mirroring Buffalo/Rochester
While Providence is more subservient to Boston than Rochester is to Buffalo
Virginia Beach looks like the outlier. It's metro is quite a bit bigger on both counts.
Except reading your Norfolk post, it seems you are cutting the metro in half with the Peninsula on one side and VB/Norfolk on the other. That seems strange from afar, but I guess it makes your peer choices make more sense.
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Originally Posted by g500
1. Buffalo
2. Grand Rapids
3. Bridgeport
4. Springfield, MA
5. Dayton
6. Milwaukee+Green Bay, WI combine and then get chopped into two pieces= Buffalo+Rochester
Here is my updated take:
Probably the best/top 3 peers of Rochester, in order:
Grand Rapids - Rochester’s fraternal twin living in another state?
Buffalo - Rochester’s bigger, more athletic, more popular brother
Birmingham - Rochester’s wild southern cousin. An old industrial city of similar size and scope.
Runner-ups:
Albany? in NY state and similar size. Different purpose/ function
Hartford? Idk maybe… seems off to me
Providence? Feels even less of a peer than Hartford
Dayton? Idk too small, too attached to another metro
Bridgeport? - too attached to another metro
Springfield, MA? - ditto for Dayton
Long shots:
Omaha? Maybe, but seems a bit too different as it is Midwestern/Great Plains / largest city in a big radius
Des Moines?? Seems like an odd comparison
New Haven?? Again, not much in common other than Northeast / similar size. Functions very differently from Rochester.
Other posters mentioned Honolulu, but I disagree. Honolulu is too global/touristed. Rochester is almost a peer in size, but the comparison ends there as Honolulu is in a different league for everything else. Not trying to diss Rochester at all. I just think Honolulu strongly outperforms (built form, density, public transportation, worldliness) for its given size. I do not really see them as peers.
Norfolk is another one mentioned. It is too large and also functionally very different from Rochester. I do not necessarily agree that they would be peers either.
Probably the best/top 3 peers of Rochester, in order: Grand Rapids - Rochester’s fraternal twin living in another state?
Buffalo - Rochester’s bigger, more athletic, more popular brother
Birmingham - Rochester’s wild southern cousin. An old industrial city of similar size and scope.
I think certainly on paper Grand Rapids and Rochester are nearly twins. It's worth pointing out that Rochester peaked in 1950 as a city when it was nearly twice the size of Grand Rapids. It has bigger city built environment because of that, so they still feel different to me. Michigan is just now really starting to get the infrastructure around Grand Rapids to meet the population, the smaller cramped freeways and lack of interchanges make it feel smaller. Grand Rapids downtown feels less businessy, but more modern. It seems like they are building stuff everywhere, where as Rochester didn't seem to have as much activity when I was there. I'd think it's a different flavor in that regard. Also GR's urban area has 100k less people than Rochester's which I'd think has an impact on feel as well.
Grand Rapids is one of the weirdest cities in the country when it comes to the statistical metrics from the CB. It's a decentralized metro. It's UA is only 600k, but it's less that 20 miles from two other UA's with more than 100K each. All three urban areas spill inside and out of the MSA as well, so in some regards it's CSA makes more logical sense. If you Just included the 4 core counties with the UA's it would be an MSA of 1.2mil. Sometimes I wonder if Grand Rapids actually has any peers lol.
Has anyone else visited both? I can see why people would consider them peers. Grand Rapids has grown up fast and will likely pass Rochester in certain numbers, but it still feels like a little brother to me.
I think certainly on paper Grand Rapids and Rochester are nearly twins. It's worth pointing out that Rochester peaked in 1950 as a city when it was nearly twice the size of Grand Rapids. It has bigger city built environment because of that, so they still feel different to me. Michigan is just now really starting to get the infrastructure around Grand Rapids to meet the population, the smaller cramped freeways and lack of interchanges make it feel smaller. Grand Rapids downtown feels less businessy, but more modern. It seems like they are building stuff everywhere, where as Rochester didn't seem to have as much activity when I was there. I'd think it's a different flavor in that regard. Also GR's urban area has 100k less people than Rochester's which I'd think has an impact on feel as well.
Grand Rapids is one of the weirdest cities in the country when it comes to the statistical metrics from the CB. It's a decentralized metro. It's UA is only 600k, but it's less that 20 miles from two other UA's with more than 100K each. All three urban areas spill inside and out of the MSA as well, so in some regards it's CSA makes more logical sense. If you Just included the 4 core counties with the UA's it would be an MSA of 1.2mil. Sometimes I wonder if Grand Rapids actually has any peers lol.
Has anyone else visited both? I can see why people would consider them peers. Grand Rapids has grown up fast and will likely pass Rochester in certain numbers, but it still feels like a little brother to me.
In terms of growth in recent years, Grand Rapids is a smaller version of Columbus (Ohio) or Austin (Texas). In terms of receiving very small immigrant fluxes (other than the Dutch, of course) and not being culturally diverse even in terms of whites, it's like Quebec City. In terms of being a conservative mid-size metro or slightly larger, it's like Cincinnati.
In terms of growth in recent years, Grand Rapids is a smaller version of Columbus (Ohio) or Austin (Texas). In terms of receiving very small immigrant fluxes (other than the Dutch, of course) and not being culturally diverse even in terms of whites, it's like Quebec City. In terms of being a conservative mid-size metro or slightly larger, it's like Cincinnati.
There is a good sized Polish population there as well. Quite a few Mexicans within and outside of the city too(Wyoming is 25%, GR is 16%). The city is about 20% black or so, mainly in the SE portion of the city. Kentwood is an adjacent suburb that is about 20% black and 11% Asian and Hispanic each.
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