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I’d think that including Center City isn’t that bad of a comparison since it’s arguable that Long Island City could count as a CBD even though it’s a weaker one. That’d just be part of the trade-off as would the idea that Queens has other secondary CBDs with downtown Flushing and potentially downtown Jamaica.
I’m actually curious as to how much office space is in Long Island City compared to Center City. I’m guessing it’ll be a blowout in Center City’s favor, but it’d be interesting to see how big that difference is.
The point of including the CBD, I would think, would be because CBDs are typically where the most pedestrian traffic exists. So if we include Center City because that's where the most activity in Philadelphia exists from a transit/pedestrian perspective, I still don't think that would put it over Queens. Flushing has its own level of pedestrian mayhem.
The point of including the CBD, I would think, would be because CBDs are typically where the most pedestrian traffic exists. So if we include Center City because that's where the most activity in Philadelphia exists from a transit/pedestrian perspective, I still don't think that would put it over Queens. Flushing has its own level of pedestrian mayhem.
Yea, that's why I think it makes more sense to include Center City. Center City is, after all, a very mixed-use neighborhood that includes a lot more than just corporate high-rises. Meanwhile, Queens has Flushing, Long Island City, and Jamaica rather than a single area that functions as a CBD.
Yea, that's why I think it makes more sense to include Center City. Center City is, after all, a very mixed-use neighborhood that includes a lot more than just corporate high-rises. Meanwhile, Queens has Flushing, Long Island City, and Jamaica rather than a single area that functions as a CBD.
I do notice that people in Philly don't seem to have an aversion to going to Center City the way New Yorkers do with Midtown Manhattan
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I think we often forget on this forum about daytime commuter-adjusted population. And since both cities' residential areas intertwine with their CBDs, I think this is fair to bring up. Philly gains about 105,000 people during the weekday, while Queens loses at least 350,000 (all commuter-adjusted data is from the 2006-2010 ACS, so it's probably even higher now). Not enough to swing the tide in Philly's favor if we're going to heavily weight pedestrian activity to boost urbanity, but it closes the gap from 775,000 people to 315,000 people.
I think we often forget on this forum about daytime commuter-adjusted population. And since both cities' residential areas intertwine with their CBDs, I think this is fair to bring up. Philly gains about 105,000 people during the weekday, while Queens loses at least 350,000 (all commuter-adjusted data is from the 2006-2010 ACS, so it's probably even higher now). Not enough to swing the tide in Philly's favor if we're going to heavily weight pedestrian activity to boost urbanity, but it closes the gap from 775,000 people to 315,000 people.
I think the only argument Philly would have--and this goes for any other city, really--is that Queens has nothing comparable to the streetwalls and urban canyons of a traditional CBD. The argument shouldn't turn on population or overall activity because there are few places in the U.S. that can match the intensity of the pedestrian experience in Flushing.
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Flushing’s Main Street is a hellish nightmare. Whenever I have to take the subway into Manhattan by route of the station there I cringe and might even shed tears if I was the emotional sort. I’ve got my reasons: 10,000,000 all told, which is about how many pedestrians seem to be walking up and down the sidewalks at any given time of day or night.
If you’ve been to Main Street yourself, you know what I mean. If not, it’ll be difficult to give you a visual depiction of the place without your thinking that I’m making the whole thing up and weaving a yarn.
There isn’t a spare inch of room anywhere. The best comparison would be to those stampedes that occasionally occur at rock concerts. A similar one occurred in Walmart at the Green Acres Mall in Valley Stream. Eager to get a jump start on Black Friday bargains, customers stormed the entrance and trampled an employee to death.
No tragedies of any such sort have occurred on Main Street, but it seems inevitable that one will be happening soon, especially as more and more towering apartment buildings and mega-malls are being crammed into the area, at least as far as I can gather.
I think we often forget on this forum about daytime commuter-adjusted population. And since both cities' residential areas intertwine with their CBDs, I think this is fair to bring up. Philly gains about 105,000 people during the weekday, while Queens loses at least 350,000 (all commuter-adjusted data is from the 2006-2010 ACS, so it's probably even higher now). Not enough to swing the tide in Philly's favor if we're going to heavily weight pedestrian activity to boost urbanity, but it closes the gap from 775,000 people to 315,000 people.
I don't think so. I think Queens actually increased its share vis-Ã -vis Manhattan. LIC was just starting out back in 2006. It wasn't a destination place, but an empty industrial area.
I think what people haven't talked about yet is architectural beauty, which I think Philly wins in this one. Aside from Forest Hills Gardens, etc a vast majority of Queens has pretty mediocre architecture, even new construction.
I think the only argument Philly would have--and this goes for any other city, really--is that Queens has nothing comparable to the streetwalls and urban canyons of a traditional CBD. The argument shouldn't turn on population or overall activity because there are few places in the U.S. that can match the intensity of the pedestrian experience in Flushing.
If I'm not mistaken, Flushing has the highest pedestrian counts in the U.S. outside of Manhattan.
I'm going to guess the streets in parts of Center City during peak morning rush hour might be somewhat comparable since it is likely a massive influx, but almost all other times, Flushing at Main Street and Roosevelt is probably heavier.
Honestly, the 7 train needs to be extended (I vote northwards and then across to the Bronx and then finally taking over the Dyre Avenue Line) and the Port Washington Branch needs to do branching after the Great Neck station so that the line as a whole can have greater frequency as well as adjusted city zone fares. Oh, and a nice connection built between the 7 train and LIRR train stations at Flushing.
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Originally Posted by Gantz
I don't think so. I think Queens actually increased its share vis-Ã -vis Manhattan. LIC was just starting out back in 2006. It wasn't a destination place, but an empty industrial area.
I think what people haven't talked about yet is architectural beauty, which I think Philly wins in this one. Aside from Forest Hills Gardens, etc a vast majority of Queens has pretty mediocre architecture, even new construction.
Long Island City built out a lot more residential than they did office. There's actually several notable office developments in the midst of construction or planning right now, but from then to today, Long Island City definitely went much more heavily towards residential construction and the inhabitants there most likely work in Manhattan and possibly in Brooklyn.
New construction outside of some skyscrapers in NYC, and maybe across the US, is generally pretty mediocre, no? I like some of the Jackson Heights stuff, brown as it is. Definitely think Philadelphia is overall better in terms of architecture.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 06-22-2018 at 03:13 PM..
Queens is basically suburban and Philly is urban even though Queens is more dense.
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