9th best downtown in the country? (better, compared, place, Atlanta)

[Be Proud]

Originally Posted by Iconographer

Who do you think you're kidding?

LOL.I was thinking the same thinking.You can tell he hasn't been in Atlanta in a long time and even then those statement are just ridiculous."Rural and suburbia" indeed.

[Be Proud]

Originally Posted by mhays25

Cross Piedmont eastward north of McGill and it's suburban-type mixed-use.

Cross Northside or Allen and it's bombed out inner city that's now more rural than suburban.

You are being very disingenuous.
If you go a few blocks just outside of downtown Chicago in some areas there is the same style of development.
In NYC you have Queens and its has some suburban areas as well but NO one would ever call Queens,Long Island etc suburban or suburbia.

Here ia an area just west of the South Loop in Downtown Chicago.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8624...7i16384!8i8192

these types of areas are simular in many American and Canadian cities.

[mhays25]

The Chicago example is typical low-intensity industrial, of the sort found in suburbs and inner cities.

Some people have a reaaaaally low bar for what you consider urban!

Let's look at the other side of Northside: https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7597.../data=!3m1!1e3. Calling it rural might be a little harsh, though some blocks are mostly empty. But urban?

And north of Allen: https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7668.../data=!3m1!1e3

And Piedmont eastward north of McGill...suburban-type complexes: https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7670.../data=!3m1!1e3

[OyCrumbler]

Originally Posted by Be Proud

You are being very disingenuous.
If you go a few blocks just outside of downtown Chicago in some areas there is the same style of development.
In NYC you have Queens and its has some suburban areas as well but NO one would ever call Queens,Long Island etc suburban or suburbia.

Here ia an area just west of the South Loop in Downtown Chicago.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8624...7i16384!8i8192

these types of areas are simular in many American and Canadian cities.

In relation to NYC and Atlanta, that's a ridiculous statement. There is no world where suburban parts of Queens far away from the miles of dense development in Manhattan and even western and central Queens somehow becomes equivalent to Atlanta. You're not directly saying this, but that's effectively where your argument goes. Even Chicago which I am much less familiar with doesn't make sense given that west, south, and especially north of the Loop is so densely developed.

It's one thing to make an argument based on what stats you have, but it's another to make a false analogy. Atlanta in some ways does have a shot at 9th place among the various other contenders and its dependent on what the criteria being used is and how those are being weighed, but the counterpoints being so completely off don't make for a sound argument.

[Be Proud]

Originally Posted by OyCrumbler

In relation to NYC and Atlanta, that's a ridiculous statement. There is no world where suburban parts of Queens far away from the miles of dense development in Manhattan and even western and central Queens somehow becomes equivalent to Atlanta. You're not directly saying this, but that's effectively where your argument goes. Even Chicago which I am much less familiar with doesn't make sense given that west, south, and especially north of the Loop is so densely developed.

It's one thing to make an argument based on what stats you have, but it's another to make a false analogy. Atlanta in some ways does have a shot at 9th place among the various other contenders and its dependent on what the criteria being used is and how those are being weighed, but the counterpoints being so completely off don't make for a sound argument.

Geez.Really?

Cross Piedmont eastward north of McGill and it's suburban-type mixed-use.

Cross Northside or Allen and it's bombed out inner city that's now more rural than suburban.

So you get indignant about something I never said but you say nothing about the poster who says just oustide of downtown is more rural?
Talk about being biased
My statement in context to what was said in response was not a false analogy
None of what you said is what I actually said. I said "parts of Queens look suburban" as far as the fact there are single family suburban style development. Thats it.
I said nothing about density or anything ese so stop making an argument that just is not there.
How did that become
"Queens is is exactly ike Atlanta?"

[Be Proud]

Originally Posted by mhays25

The Chicago example is typical low-intensity industrial, of the sort found in suburbs and inner cities.

Some people have a reaaaaally low bar for what you consider urban!

Let's look at the other side of Northside: https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7597.../data=!3m1!1e3. Calling it rural might be a little harsh, though some blocks are mostly empty. But urban?

And north of Allen: https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7668.../data=!3m1!1e3

And Piedmont eastward north of McGill...suburban-type complexes: https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7670.../data=!3m1!1e3

W

You said rural and suburbia.Neither is true.I never said it was high density urban,
There are vacant lots but a lot of new construction is gong on in pockets in that area.
Some of that area is also "typical low-intensity industrial".
That was my point.This area is very similar to what I said about Chicago and Queens

I have not been to those two areas in a while but in those areas in Atlanta,they have been or being heavily developed.
Allen which is Joseph E Boone once it crosses Northside is being totally redone with bike lanes and new streets capes as well as Martin Luther King BLVD which runs parallel a few blocks away.

On Boone a new city park is being built.That area is a flood zone.hose had to be demolished after major flooding decades ago.Nothing could be built there.
So a park with water features to help with water run off to alleviate flooding.
To the North of Boone is English Ave

English Ave has been a really bad area and still is but not like t was even 3 years ago.I know because I owned a few houses in the Vine City neighborhood adjacent as well as lived there for 10 years .

Your pictures are a little dated and there has been a god deal of development.If you have not been in that area in awhile you would know this is not like it used to be as there is considerable development.
NO one would call it rural
Here is one view where you can see newly constructed buildings as well as clearing of large area of land.
Georgia Tech has bought some land and also has plans to expand if they have not already.
[URL="Even Englsh Ave .The pictures are a little dated and there has been a god deal of development.If you have not been in that area in awhile you would know this is not like it used to be as there is considerable development going on in those areas where NO one would call it rural. Here is one view where you can see newly constructed buildings as well as clearing of large area of land. Georgia Tech has bought some land and also has plans to expand if they have not already.

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7700523,-84.4082094,3a,75y,231.87h,91.77t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sv3wskVah_exZLEH4U7g2Tg!2e0!7i1 3312!8i6656

Here is the new Rodney Mims Cooks Sr Peace off Boone
https://www.rodneycooksrpark.org/

Multifamily housing adds to density regardless of the style.Its better than row houses which also add to density in cities like Philly,NYC etc.
Also if you actually drove around these areas today you would see there are consideralble residenial development through this area.The vast majority is multi-family.

Either way as it pertains to what I questioned Atldy about his statement and then your supporting statements,you were wrong.
I dont know what else you are trying to prove with all this as I never said it was dense but it certainly isnt "rural" as that not harsh but just wrong.
Even the bombed out statement was stretching it as that whole area is changing and you could see if you were actually in the area

[DavePa]

Originally Posted by Be Proud

You are being very disingenuous.
If you go a few blocks just outside of downtown Chicago in some areas there is the same style of development.
In NYC you have Queens and its has some suburban areas as well but NO one would ever call Queens,Long Island etc suburban or suburbia.

Here ia an area just west of the South Loop in Downtown Chicago.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8624...7i16384!8i8192

these types of areas are simular in many American and Canadian cities.

You are being disingenuous here using a industrial area NOT connected to downtown Chicago and showing a parking lot. You apparently sought some random street-view and BIG FAIL. You will DO ANYTHING TO BOAST FOR ATLANTA. Who counts industrial areas a urban or suburban anyway..... No place has multi-story factories anymore.

Just you never stop arguing a point on seeing Atlanta fully arrived in the world, when more then one other poster disagrees. To use Queens even also .... BIG FAIL.

I'm surprised you would even settle for 9th place for Atlanta. Are you really arguing only 9th....

[YIMBY]

Originally Posted by Enean

Minneapolis downtown is not a top downtown. There are some beautiful buildings if you look up, but at street level, it's sorely lacking.

LOL! Based on the criteria, 1) Economic vitality (how important is the Downtown to the metro area), 2) Retail
3) Dining, 4) Entertainment (theatres, festivals, Arena events), 5) Transit, and 6)Overall Vibrancy it does very well, especially compared compared to Denver, Portland, Pittsburgh, Austin, etc... It's either on par with or surpasses some of those cities.

[OyCrumbler]

Originally Posted by Be Proud

Geez.Really?


So you get indignant about something I never said but you say nothing about the poster who says just oustide of downtown is more rural?
Talk about being biased
My statement in context to what was said in response was not a false analogy
None of what you said is what I actually said. I said "parts of Queens look suburban" as far as the fact there are single family suburban style development. Thats it.
I said nothing about density or anything ese so stop making an argument that just is not there.
How did that become
"Queens is is exactly ike Atlanta?"

Because he didn’t say anything unreasonable nor anything I care about.

[btownboss4]

I think where most downtowns are gonna have trouble is the economic vitality measure.

For example two cities that were discussed, Milwaukee, St Louis and Cleveland have under 100,000 jobs downtown. Downtown Atlanta and Baltimore have about 120,000, Minneapolis has 160,000.

Pittsburgh 107,000 in 2010 so I’m sure it’s pretty close to 135,000 or so by now.

These numbers are from the cities Downtown websites so take them with a grain of salt.