Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Cincy has a bigger direct walk-able core. Cincy CBD, OTR and Covington/Newport is more substantial than Pittsburgh downtown and Strip/ immediate south and north sides. However the broader core of Pittsburgh is much more substantial then Cincy. Hyde Park is more of a streetcar suburban feel than Squirrel Hill which especially in the business district feels pretty urban.
I live in Covington and frequently walk across the Ohio River bridges into the the CBD and OTR and for many people the prime complete spot for urban living in Cincy is in this core basin. For Pittsburgh, the urban areas outside of downtown offer a competing spot for the top tier urban living in the region.
I walked from the corner 8th and Washington Street Newport up to 9th and Plum street Downtown Cincinnati then back down to 4th and Vine street Downtown Cincinnati one day in the middle of summer for a total of three miles. At the point I began to get tired and weary. At that point I took the South Bank trolley back to Newport OTL Mall and walked the final 0.6 mile back. If I would have walked from 8th and Washington Newport to Findlay Market in Over the Rhine and back I would have walked a total of 6 miles. That is not a walk you would want to do every day.
That walk made me realize how big the core is and I didn't even venture into Over the Rhine that day. It also mad me realize how important the street cars were for getting around the urban core back in the day especially when the West End was fully intact. Downtown's problem is that the average person is priced out of there. There is not enough mid priced housing units there to support a robust population.
I walked from the corner 8th and Washington Street Newport up to 9th and Plum street Downtown Cincinnati then back down to 4th and Vine street Downtown Cincinnati one day in the middle of summer for a total of three miles. At the point I began to get tired and weary. At that point I took the South Bank trolley back to Newport OTL Mall and walked the final 0.6 mile back. If I would have walked from 8th and Washington Newport to Findlay Market in Over the Rhine and back I would have walked a total of 6 miles. That is not a walk you would want to do every day.
That walk made me realize how big the core is and I didn't even venture into Over the Rhine that day. It also mad me realize how important the street cars were for getting around the urban core back in the day especially when the West End was fully intact. Downtown's problem is that the average person is priced out of there. There is not enough mid priced housing units there to support a robust population.
I was wondering if people do that typically in Cincy - walk across the bridges (I mean locals not tourists). In Pgh its very easy and common, also I think the distance is a bit shorter in Pgh, since Cincy's downtown is not really directly next to the river like Pittsburgh's is. For example do people live in Newport but commute to downtown Cincy by walking?
Yeah, Shadyside is part of the urban core of Pittsburgh because it pretty seamlessly merges with walkable parts of North Oakland, East Liberty, Bloomfield, etc. Squirrel Hill's business district is off by itself, doing its own thing.
Hyde Park is definitely way too far out and isolated to be an urban core area for Cinci I would think. It's more isolated than Squirrel Hill, and a lot lower-density, both in terms of its business district being much smaller and the lack of much multi-family.
Northside isn't much closer to Downtown Cincinnati, but it's much more 'old urban" because it developed decades earlier (the core was its own municipality before Cinci annexed it in 1873, meaning it's older than hilltop neighborhoods right next to Over-The-Rhine. Nice business district, albeit rather small. Nice old urban housing. Still less dense than somewhere like Bloomfield in Pittsburgh though - and as far out from the urban core as say Brookline would be in Pittsburgh.
The one caveat I would give is parts of South Side Flats are eight blocks deep measuring from river to the hillside, meaning it does provide for a vibrant pedestrian experience on a grid eight blocks deep by eight blocks long.
But yeah, Pittsburgh is more about linear business districts. Butler Street and East Carson Street both have 20+ blocks of continual 19th century storefronts packed with businesses. Not too many places off the East Coast except Chicago have that.
Butler Street and East Carson street are indeed mammoths. I don't even think DC has a linear strip filled with storefronts for as long as East Carson.
You're right that South Side flats is 8 blocks from the hills to the river, but the vast majority of the storefronts seem to be on East Carson street. OTR seems to have storefronts on several streets and also on the ground floor of residences. That's why I think OTR is much more of a mixed-use grid than the south side flats.
I haven't shot in Cincy in about 10 years, so these pics are old, but they still give you an idea of the fabric of the core areas of the city. https://photos.app.goo.gl/16g6VPDMN6cftFPGA
From what I understand about Cincy, they ruined a lot of their urbanity with freeways somewhere on the west side of the city. For a while it seemed like they were an urban city aspiring to be a sun belt city, but the streetcar seems to have changed that. I admire they way they "just did it" in the face of skeptics while places like Nashville and Columbus sit paralyzed in transit indecision while their population swells.
From what I understand about Cincy, they ruined a lot of their urbanity with freeways somewhere on the west side of the city. For a while it seemed like they were an urban city aspiring to be a sun belt city, but the streetcar seems to have changed that. I admire they way they "just did it" in the face of skeptics while places like Nashville and Columbus sit paralyzed in transit indecision while their population swells.
Columbus’s CPASS System and bus Redesign has caused a 7% yoy ridership increase much bigger than Cincy
I was wondering if people do that typically in Cincy - walk across the bridges (I mean locals not tourists). In Pgh its very easy and common, also I think the distance is a bit shorter in Pgh, since Cincy's downtown is not really directly next to the river like Pittsburgh's is. For example do people live in Newport but commute to downtown Cincy by walking?
The Roebling Bridge is the bridge used most for walk commuting. The Taylor Southgate Bridge and Purple People Bridge are not used as much for walk commuting as they enter into Ohio further from the Cincinnati CBD. However all bridges still provide good access to Cincinnati from Covington and Newport.There is also the Clay Wade Bailey bridge but that is mostly used for recreational purposes or going to Paul Brown Stadium.
The bridges in Cincinnati are about twice as long as the bridges in Pittsburgh so there is definitely much less pedestrian traffic in the winter (winds can be brutal). Last spring there was a car accident that shut down the Roebling and while the shutdown as not debilitating it definitely caused a lot of people to re-route their commute to a different bridge.
From what I understand about Cincy, they ruined a lot of their urbanity with freeways somewhere on the west side of the city. For a while it seemed like they were an urban city aspiring to be a sun belt city, but the streetcar seems to have changed that. I admire they way they "just did it" in the face of skeptics while places like Nashville and Columbus sit paralyzed in transit indecision while their population swells.
There was a determined effort by conservatives in Cincinnati to flat out stop the construction of the streetcar. Mayor Mallory made it financially impossible for conservatives to shut it down. I think politicians in American cities need to understand who the opposition really is and who is really behind them in their quest to derail mass transit projects. Who funds the these major influential conservative think tanks that provide all the talking points that are repeated verbatim on talk radio which plays a key role in derailing these mass transit projects. Who sits on the boards on these think tanks such as the Heritage Foundation. The hidden agenda of the real purpose of these major influential conservative think tanks as stated by Lewis F. Powell Jr in the Powell Memorandum (https://www.webcitation.org/64jAmJkK...ocument13.html ) before he was appointed to the US Supreme Court.
Funding for mass transit programs such buses, rail, and bike lanes is seen by Conservatives as an assault on American's freedom and mobility to enjoy a suburban lifestyle. Urban living and mass transportation is seen as the antithesis of American liberty and freedom. Major influential conservative think tanks in the past 10 years have painted a big bullseye on mass transportation and zoning that would enable population to densify and urbanize in character. They have become vehemently and passionate opposed to anything that suggests urbanity and mass transit because they they think there is a war to take away their cars and therefore their mobility and Constitutional rights to enjoy the American dream . They think suburban taxpayer dollars should not be stolen to support programs antithetical to American freedom, liberty, and mobility. Mobilty means roads over mass transportation.
There was a determined effort by conservatives in Cincinnati to flat out stop the construction of the streetcar. Mayor Mallory made it financially impossible for conservatives to shut it down. I think politicians in American cities need to understand who the opposition really is and who is really behind them in their quest to derail mass transit projects. Who funds the these major influential conservative think tanks that provide all the talking points that are repeated verbatim on talk radio which plays a key role in derailing these mass transit projects. Who sits on the boards on these think tanks such as the Heritage Foundation. The hidden agenda of the real purpose of these major influential conservative think tanks as stated by Lewis F. Powell Jr in the Powell Memorandum (https://www.webcitation.org/64jAmJkK...ocument13.html ) before he was appointed to the US Supreme Court.
Funding for mass transit programs such buses, rail, and bike lanes is seen by Conservatives as an assault on American's freedom and mobility to enjoy a suburban lifestyle. Urban living and mass transportation is seen as the antithesis of American liberty and freedom. Major influential conservative think tanks in the past 10 years have painted a big bullseye on mass transportation and zoning that would enable population to density and urbanize in character. They have become vehemently and passionate opposed to anything that suggests urbanity and mass transit because they think there is a war to take away their cars and therefore their mobility and Constitutional rights to enjoy the American dream . They think suburban taxpayer dollars should not be stolen to support programs antithetical to American freedom, liberty, and mobility. Mobility means roads over mass transportation.
The Roebling Bridge is the bridge used most for walk commuting. The Taylor Southgate Bridge and Purple People Bridge are not used as much for walk commuting as they enter into Ohio further from the Cincinnati CBD. However all bridges still provide good access to Cincinnati from Covington and Newport.There is also the Clay Wade Bailey bridge but that is mostly used for recreational purposes or going to Paul Brown Stadium.
The bridges in Cincinnati are about twice as long as the bridges in Pittsburgh so there is definitely much less pedestrian traffic in the winter (winds can be brutal). Last spring there was a car accident that shut down the Roebling and while the shutdown as not debilitating it definitely caused a lot of people to re-route their commute to a different bridge.
Thanks for the info. actually the bridges and rivers themselves are not much different in size, it must be the build of the area surrounding it that's different, and that Cincy's downtown has more separation from the riverfront. In Pittsburgh we're generally walking across the Allegheny or Monongahela rivers, rather than the Ohio, but they're almost the same distance across, just slightly less.
Last edited by _Buster; 01-27-2019 at 11:09 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Who still really thwarts Public transit/mass transit efforts in our cities.
