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Yeah unlike cities in California and the Northeast, there's no point in being a supercommuter in areas that have relatively low housing costs between both metros and The way they'd connect is via connection in build in sprawl which I definitely don't want to see more of.
A first step is seeing if people in both areas see themselves as a collective, much like how Dallas and Fort Worth identified as the Metroplex or SF-Oak-SJ became the Bay Area. Tampa-Orlando seems to be "Central Florida" but Austin-San Antonio don't have a similar name.
They're "Central Florida" but that's about it. The two cities have some pretty strong rivalries between each other.
Merging into a CSA or merging as in totally connected between both core cities? If the latter then San Antonio-Austin is already there. Also high speed rail between SA-Austin is already planned and Virgin Trains USA will be operating that line as per Richard Branson.
The Tampa Orlando corridor is already a blur without merging officially. It probably will never go into a metro style governance because they don't have to, sorta like St Paul/Minny, or Kansas City KS/MO
I think outward sprawl in general has mostly reached its twilight in the US. People are only willing to commute so far, especially in areas that aren't that expensive to begin with.
Are there any major job centers in the spaces between these? Without that I also don't think the concentration of infill will likely ever happen. In the case of SA and Austin neither are actually that big at theory poles to begin with so am struggling to see this. for Orlando and Tampa they are only slightly bigger
I don't ever see either really getting fully developed; especially without other job centers And for Orlando and Tampa there is not the coast that spurs concentrated development between them ala Miami up the coast
If anything their distance is about the same as are NYC and Philly and although they are close and magnitudes more people at their poles and in between they are still pretty distinct, especially at their ends, the middles has greyed and has miles of overlapped suburbs. But one thing this area has is probably 3M jobs in job centers in the middle space; that drives more development and thus more continuity and overlap
Maybe my perspective is jaded on what a connect area would look like, Chicago and Milwaukee to be honest are way closer than either of these two today on this, albeit maybe 10 miles further to the core cities
I think outward sprawl in general has mostly reached its twilight in the US. People are only willing to commute so far, especially in areas that aren't that expensive to begin with.
Yeah, especially now that younger people like myself don't really desire, or maybe more accurately can't afford, to live in big lot sized houses out in the middle of nowhere commuting all the time. And in areas like Texas and Florida, why would you need to sprawl that much to begin with if the housing is cheap?
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Originally Posted by kidphilly
Are there any major job centers in the spaces between these? Without that I also don't think the concentration of infill will likely ever happen. In the case of SA and Austin neither are actually that big at theory poles to begin with so am struggling to see this. for Orlando and Tampa they are only slightly bigger
To latch onto this, are the job centers in each of the city pairs distinct enough to draw a large number of commuters from the other city, or do they have the same kind of jobs? I know for San Antonio and Austin, Austin has more of the knowledge sectors such as tech, while San Antonio is more military oriented, but is that a big enough draw for people in the other city. Tampa-Orlando I feel like offer the same kinds of jobs but someone could correct me on that one.
Still, it would be interesting to see if residents of these pairs see themselves as part of a unified region, or just two distinct metros that happen to be near each other.
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It really makes no sense to combine either of them at this time. Tampa to Orlando is 84 miles directly (many routes are over 100 miles) and Austin to San Antonio is 80 miles (some routes close to 100 miles). For all intents and purposes they are both separate metro areas. Sure it might be possible to commute from the suburbs of one city to another city, but that will be greatly overshadowed by the number of commuters travelling into the closest core city. The Census may have a certain percentage that must be overcome to be included in a metro area (20%, 25%?)
NYC and Philadelphia with 95 miles of distance have much more population density and development in between them and would make more sense to combine. But even there I would not combine them because they are distinct and operate with two distinctive core downtowns, even though their job market overlaps. Now there are gray areas with Baltimore-Washington (38 miles) and San Jose-San Francisco (48 miles). I think SFSJ has branded itself well as the Bay Area/Silicon Valley.
For the record I do not think Tampa, Orlando, Austin, or San Antonio are small cities by any means. At least from a national perspective (USA only) they are all certainly major cities by themselves.
I haven't spent a lot of time to and from Tampa to Orlando, but I have spent time in San Antonio to Austin recently. When you're in San Antonio and the city in general is discussed (along with other cities), Austin always comes up. Also, just the congestion in traffic and the development along 35.
I feel like just looking at a Google Earth image of Tampa to Orlando, despite the proximity, people wanting to live in the Tampa area will stick to as close to the coast as possible rather than development heading more inland; even if its towards another major metro area. I could be way off, though- just a guess.
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