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Jax is the "winner" or at least one of the top contenders. Very very lacking in amenities compared to most other top 100 metros. Jax has some great urban core neighborhoods, which probably has come at the expense of downtown to some extent. I will say that the most significant development of the past decade is actually coming to downtown Jax now (Laura Street Trio and Barnett Bank Building repurposing) which is not terribly impressive on a national scale but will transform the feel of downtown Jax. That said, somehow when we finally take two steps forward we find a way to take multiple steps back as well, with a major demo occurring earlier this year and now a proposal to demolish the Jacksonville Landing and prepare it for a new development (i.e., it will sit empty for another decade minimum)
To me, what is most emblematic of downtown Jax's failure to get it together has to be the convention center situation. Most other sizable cities built their convention center/anchor hotel duos, which are pretty much standard civic/commercial fixtures for cities, years ago, but for some reason Jax has struggled to solve its own particular quandary as far as that goes.
To me, what is most emblematic of downtown Jax's failure to get it together has to be the convention center situation. Most other sizable cities built their convention center/anchor hotel duos, which are pretty much standard civic/commercial fixtures for cities, years ago, but for some reason Jax has struggled to solve its own particular quandary as far as that goes.
It’s a great example of where city/county consolidations can be prohibitive. The more suburban Duval county portions of JAX have stood in the way of initiatives for core investments for decades. The impression I have is that this mindset has started to shift over the last 10 years and progress is being made. Though they are definitely coming into the game late.
I'm Street-Viewing around downtown Jacksonville now.
You guys aren't kidding. Looks totally deserted, almost like a Twilight Zone episode, even with all the tall buildings and the monorail. The low density of storefronts might be playing a role. I feel like I'm in the Chicago Loop at 4 am on a weeknight.
For another downtown that's super dead and unremarkable considering it's a city most people have heard of, check out Topeka, KS.
It’s a great example of where city/county consolidations can be prohibitive. The more suburban Duval county portions of JAX have stood in the way of initiatives for core investments for decades. The impression I have is that this mindset has started to shift over the last 10 years and progress is being made. Though they are definitely coming into the game late.
This seems to have been problematic in Jax/Duval to an extent virtually unheard of in peer consolidated cities (Nashville, Louisville) or cities that annexed a lot of territory within their counties and/or merged some municipal/county functions (Charlotte, Kansas City). So unfortunate.
I'm Street-Viewing around downtown Jacksonville now.
You guys aren't kidding. Looks totally deserted, almost like a Twilight Zone episode, even with all the tall buildings and the monorail. The low density of storefronts might be playing a role. I feel like I'm in the Chicago Loop at 4 am on a weeknight.
For another downtown that's super dead and unremarkable considering it's a city most people have heard of, check out Topeka, KS.
Jacksonville is by FAR the worst large city downtown in the southeast. And it's not even close. Anyone who says otherwise is on pure homer Kool Aid.
I stayed at the Jax Omni last year and even for an urbanite, it was a frightening experience. On a weeknight, less than 5 restaurants open that I saw in an EXTENSIVE sweep of the CBD. The waterfront is tired and failing. I heard racial problems discussed on the monorail that I had NEVER heard discussed anywhere else in the south. It really was twilight zone.
That said, jax has some promising neighborhoods, Jax beach is awesome, but its all about what far out subdivision you are in and all the nightlife is still focused way out at St Johns Town Center.
Jacksonville easily and it didn't help decades ago when the city went for urban renewal and razed a lot of old buildings yet nothing came of it. It once was a vibrant city too.
To me, what is most emblematic of downtown Jax's failure to get it together has to be the convention center situation. Most other sizable cities built their convention center/anchor hotel duos, which are pretty much standard civic/commercial fixtures for cities, years ago, but for some reason Jax has struggled to solve its own particular quandary as far as that goes.
You are so on point, more than you might even realize. The CC situation actually reached a climax of ineptitude a few months ago...not sure if I feel like rehashing it right now but it's a total cluster*. Anyway, the truth is, Jax may not need a major convention center. It isn't proven that the high stakes convention game is worthwhile beyond the 5 or 10 top convention destinations. Pouring 500M into a new one might not be worthwhile. The main issue is that our current modest convention center has been occupying our "Union Station" for several decades, preventing any hope of returning it to its highest and best use as a transportation hub. Until we find a new home for our small conventions, this will always be a problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjlo
It’s a great example of where city/county consolidations can be prohibitive. The more suburban Duval county portions of JAX have stood in the way of initiatives for core investments for decades. The impression I have is that this mindset has started to shift over the last 10 years and progress is being made. Though they are definitely coming into the game late.
Actually, and this has perhaps amplified the problem, Jax has invested hundreds of millions of dollars in downtown Jax over the last few decades. The perceived lack of downtown representation as a result of consolidation hasn't stopped the city at large from funding improvements. The issue is that every master plan has stunk and many of the initiatives were not well thought out. We've kinda poured money into a bucket with a hole in the bottom. And as a result there has been lots of negative downtown resentment built up through the years when people look at all their money wasted with nothing to show for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77
This seems to have been problematic in Jax/Duval to an extent virtually unheard of in peer consolidated cities (Nashville, Louisville) or cities that annexed a lot of territory within their counties and/or merged some municipal/county functions (Charlotte, Kansas City). So unfortunate.
Yes, the weaknesses and obstacles are not unique to Jax, yet we struggle an inordinate amount.
You are so on point, more than you might even realize. The CC situation actually reached a climax of ineptitude a few months ago...not sure if I feel like rehashing it right now but it's a total cluster*. Anyway, the truth is, Jax may not need a major convention center. It isn't proven that the high stakes convention game is worthwhile beyond the 5 or 10 top convention destinations. Pouring 500M into a new one might not be worthwhile. The main issue is that our current modest convention center has been occupying our "Union Station" for several decades, preventing any hope of returning it to its highest and best use as a transportation hub. Until we find a new home for our small conventions, this will always be a problem.
I'm aware of the studies which conclude that convention centers typically aren't worth the public financial investment, but I think their value goes beyond that. There are cities I would have never visited or known much about if it wasn't for some sort of convention I attended there; I think the exposure it gives cities positions them for unrealized benefits in the future that are often hard to quantify. And Jacksonville would likely have (had) an advantage due to the milder year-round climate. I also think a modern, centrally-located convention center and hotel could have served as an anchor for additional downtown development and had one been built, we might not even be discussing Jacksonville in this thread right now. Now it's great that the train station was preserved and found a new use, but it wasn't the most optimal one.
Hartford, CT. A city Mark Twain once admired and loved had much of its downtown destroyed with terrible mid 20th century urban renewal taking a lot of historic infrastructure down and transformed into what's basically a 9-5 vertical office park. Routing I-91 and I-84 as a chokehold around the downtown didn't help matters much basically cutting off any adjacent neighborhood vibrancy and also severing he waterfront from the city. With a small land area and city population of 120K with little interest from the suburbs in bringing the city up, it's almost a lost cause at this point.
There is talk of moving 84 south of Downtown into a tunnel. The only thing thats set in stone is the viaduct replacement which should take off within a few years.
Jacksonville is by FAR the worst large city downtown in the southeast. And it's not even close. Anyone who says otherwise is on pure homer Kool Aid.
I stayed at the Jax Omni last year and even for an urbanite, it was a frightening experience. On a weeknight, less than 5 restaurants open that I saw in an EXTENSIVE sweep of the CBD. The waterfront is tired and failing. I heard racial problems discussed on the monorail that I had NEVER heard discussed anywhere else in the south. It really was twilight zone.
That said, jax has some promising neighborhoods, Jax beach is awesome, but its all about what far out subdivision you are in and all the nightlife is still focused way out at St Johns Town Center.
Downtown Jacksonville definitely has some catching up to do, but it's not some bombed-out, heavily blighted place with no hope of improvement. There are too many dead areas after working hours and on weekends, but I'm not sure why that would be "frightening." I think what helps soften the blow somewhat is its geographic setting along the St. John's River (a walk along the riverfront on a sunny day makes for a pleasant experience) and its good urban bones/intact street grid which makes it easy to envision what downtown could be.
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