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All you have done in this thread is post incorrect assumptions. I have responded with actual statistics on acceptance rate, yield, GPA, and test scores. Which has led to your responses with... more incorrect assumptions. But, whatever.
I don't think I have it backwards. Great major cities are a bonus- that's Chicago in the Midwest, and maybe to a lesser extent Minneapolis or possibly Columbus. Declining Rust Belt cities with high poverty, high crime and low levels of education - that's a net negative. Maybe not as much of a negative as a small town. But calling Ann Arbor a small town means either you are being incredibly disingenuous or have no idea what you are talking about. There are >100K people in the city, in a county of 350K, and in a larger CSA of over 5,000,000 people. DTW airport is 20 miles down I-94. Is Ann Arbor a major metropolitan anchor?- No, but it is a medium sized city located in a large metro.
As college towns go, Ann Arbor is great... one of the best ... college towns, that is. It is not a major city. And while I will steer clear of any negative comments about Detroit (which, btw, is making great strides toward revitalization), Cleveland, esp where Case Western's campus is located, is one of the more vibrant, cultural (in the heart of amazing University Circle), physically beautiful (park like, lagoons, old mansions, many repurposed) urban settings a student could ask for. Also within the last 10 years, the Uptown neighborhood, which is CWRU's (and CIA's and CIM's) college town retail strip, has been rebuilt/expanded as a vibrant walkable neighborhood. Extremely vibrant/electric Little Italy is adjacent. Mass transit (rail rapid transit, 24/7 BRT + other buses) connect campus to downtown (experiencing its own vibrancy renaissance), Ohio City, the Airport and other hip/cool Cleveland areas.
So whatever stereotype you want to attach to Cleveland is baseless, and if parents/students are laboring under such misinformation, they need to get a computer and logon to the internet.
I lived in Ann Arbor for a while. It thinks it's in the same league as NYC and Chicago. Despite this, it does have a small town mentality in many ways. Most importantly, the people there are simply not open to outsiders. The residents are largely townies and University of Michigan graduates, both of whom have already established social circles. I'd go as far as to say that you shouldn't relocate to Ann Arbor unless you're from there originally or are affiliated with one of the universities.
Proximity to Detroit is a net positive if you don't have to deal with the downsides of Detroit on a daily basis. Metro Detroit has many of the big city amenities and culture that no city of about 120,000 can be expected to have. For example, the Detroit Institute of Arts is one of the top five art museums in the entire country.
Actually, I'd say the best thing about Ann Arbor is that it's only 45 minutes from Detroit.
Michigan as a whole has excellent outdoor recreation. However, it's largely much farther north, on the west (opposite) side of the state, or both.
I've also traveled to Cleveland, Pittsburgh, and Richmond. I was impressed with all three, especially Richmond.
Last edited by IAmEverywhere; 12-03-2019 at 11:37 PM..
Reason: Fixed formatting
As college towns go, Ann Arbor is great... one of the best ... college towns, that is. It is not a major city. And while I will steer clear of any negative comments about Detroit (which, btw, is making great strides toward revitalization), Cleveland, esp where Case Western's campus is located, is one of the more vibrant, cultural (in the heart of amazing University Circle), physically beautiful (park like, lagoons, old mansions, many repurposed) urban settings a student could ask for. Also within the last 10 years, the Uptown neighborhood, which is CWRU's (and CIA's and CIM's) college town retail strip, has been rebuilt/expanded as a vibrant walkable neighborhood. Extremely vibrant/electric Little Italy is adjacent. Mass transit (rail rapid transit, 24/7 BRT + other buses) connect campus to downtown (experiencing its own vibrancy renaissance), Ohio City, the Airport and other hip/cool Cleveland areas.
So whatever stereotype you want to attach to Cleveland is baseless, and if parents/students are laboring under such misinformation, they need to get a computer and logon to the internet.
I just finished a gig at case for a month. Going to work on that campus was lovely, as was walking around in general. I honestly don't understand how anyone can say anything too negative about University circle. It is one of the best cultural centers in the country. I dont see how anyone who values such things can possibly disagree.
Too often when comparing medical facilities, persons only look at U.S. News & World Report rankings.
IMO, especially as a senior citizen, one of the most important and substantial rating systems is offered by Medicare. Both the Mayo Clinic and Cleveland Clinic main campuses have five star Medicare ratings, and these are uncommon.
I've often written about the high Medicare hospital ratings in Greater Cleveland, but today I looked at the ratings in Pittsburgh for a post response.
So, considering both U.S. News and World Report and Medicare, I would rank Minneapolis number 1 and Cleveland number 2 (a very close 2 given the additional presence of University Hospitals in Cleveland), and Pittsburgh much lower than just based on USNWR rankings. I've spent too much time posting today so I'm not going to analyze Ann Arbor and Richmond.
Also, when a city has more than one highly rated hospital, it's important to consider specialty ratings for ALL hospitals in the city in assessing the overall quality of a city's medical care.
See post 111 in this thread for a discussion comparing Cleveland and Pittsburgh healthcare quality which incorporates both USNWR rankings and Medicare ratings.
Cleveland doesn't have a major university sports program in northeast Ohio.
Ohio State has better sports coverage at cleveland.com than perhaps even in the Columbus Dispatch and is featured on nightly sports programs. Ratings for Ohio State games are extremely high in Cleveland. It's just two hours from Cleveland to Ohio State, according to Google.
So perhaps it's fair to rank Cleveland ahead of Ann Arbor in university sports! A timely post.
Cleveland doesn't have a major university sports program in northeast Ohio.
Ohio State has better sports coverage at cleveland.com than perhaps even in the Columbus Dispatch and is featured on nightly sports programs. Ratings for Ohio State games are extremely high in Cleveland. It's just two hours from Cleveland to Ohio State, according to Google.
So perhaps it's fair to rank Cleveland ahead of Ann Arbor in university sports! A timely post.
I'm guessing this isn't serious but I'll bite. How does Cleveland get to claim Columbus now? I'm sure ratings are high for Penn St in Pittsburgh but nobody is using that as a reason to boost the city. They have plenty of legitimate reasons to do so without having to go outside the metro area. If you have to use sports two hours away to boost a city, I'm thinking that's a completely invalid reason.
And if we're gonna start using anything within two hours, Richmond runs away handily.
I'm guessing this isn't serious but I'll bite. How does Cleveland get to claim Columbus now? I'm sure ratings are high for Penn St in Pittsburgh but nobody is using that as a reason to boost the city. They have plenty of legitimate reasons to do so without having to go outside the metro area. If you have to use sports two hours away to boost a city, I'm thinking that's a completely invalid reason.
And if we're gonna start using examples within two hours, Richmond runs away handily.
Well, it was mostly in jest at the expense of Ann Arbor boosters. Yet, after I decided Minneapolis should get credit for the Mayo Clinic, 90 minutes away in Rochester, I thought, "What's an extra half hour?"
Well, it was mostly in jest at the expense of Ann Arbor boosters. Yet, after I decided Minneapolis should get credit for the Mayo Clinic, 90 minutes away in Rochester, I thought, "What's an extra half hour?"
If Cleveland can somehow claim Columbus, Minneapolis gets credit for the Mayo Clinic 90 minutes away, shouldn't Richmond get credit for Washington and Ann Arbor for Detroit? In Ann Arbor's case, it is actually within the Detroit CSA. I've seen Clevelanders claim Akron and Canton on here and I can buy the argument there, but Columbus?
If Cleveland can somehow claim Columbus, Minneapolis gets credit for the Mayo Clinic 90 minutes away, shouldn't Richmond get credit for Washington and Ann Arbor for Detroit? In Ann Arbor's case, it is actually within the Detroit CSA. I've seen Clevelanders claim Akron and Canton on here and I can buy the argument there, but Columbus?
You raise IMO a good issue. And I do think, especially as a lover of history and of museums, that a great attraction of Richmond is its proximity not only to Washington, DC, but many, many other attractions. E.g., Richmond is within two hours of ocean beaches. I think I could find months worth of reasonably distant and very enjoyable day trips from Richmond, especially as someone with a deep interest in both the American Revolutionary War period (Richmond is within an hour of Williamsburg and Yorktown) and the Civil War. I'll bet there is a very convenient Virginia Park & Ride to facilitate visits from Richmond to downtown Washington, especially on weekends.
Two hours is my perceived limit on day trip distances. Four hour drives in one day are not my ideal, but I know several persons who frequently make these trips between Cleveland and Columbus, typically for sporting events in one city or the other, but also between the cities' excellent, but different zoos or to see Cleveland's cultural attractions. This is especially true of persons living in southern Greater Cleveland or northern Columbus.
Traveling 90 minutes for some of the very best healthcare in the world (Minneapolis to the Mayo Clinic main campus in Rochester) IMO seems essentially reasonable, especially for surgical procedures or expert consultations.
I use Cleveland Clinic services and have had a wondrous surgical procedure performed at the main campus, 40 minutes from my home with door-to-door mass transit available. Yet I regularly use CC services at two CC clinics within 15 minutes of my home, and the CC is planning to build a hospital with emergency room services within 15 minutes of my home. My surgeon was highly recommended by a rotating CC specialist during an appointment at a nearby clinic.
Similarly, the Mayo Clinic has several clinics and even hospitals (the CC also owns hospitals throughout northeast Ohio, including Akron) within the Minneapolis/St. Paul CSA. As in my case, visits to the Mayo Clinic main campus might only take place when the services of a top, very experienced surgical team or an expert consultation is needed. E.g., having the services of a surgeon whose team performs hundreds of similar surgeries annually, versus a general surgeon who performs a handful of these surgeries annually, is invaluable. Often these surgeries require only a day or two of hospitalization, and top clinics have specialized nurse recovery teams and specialized residents, even floors or an entire specialized hospital dedicated to specialized services within the clinic's main campus.
So, I firmly believe that Minneapolis deserves credit for having the world-renown Mayo Clinic in its backyard, especially as the Mayo Clinic's tentacles are well established within the Minneapolis/St. Paul CSA. Top-notch healthcare is a very different consideration then distance from sports teams or museums in my experience. Again, a trip of only 90 minutes for world-class health care is wondrous for any city.
Ann Arbor is easily within one hour of the many great attractions in Detroit. It certainly deserves credit for Detroit attractions. Ann Arbor is even closer to the great historical museums (including The Henry Ford) in Dearborn. An easier case due to closer proximity can be made for giving Ann Arbor credit for Detroit and Dearborn attractions than for giving Richmond credit for Washington attractions. I know nothing about mass transit, rail or bus connections between Ann Arbor and Detroit nor Richmond and Washington, DC, but my guess is that they are more robust between Ann Arbor and Detroit, but I could be wrong.
The logic of giving Cleveland credit for Ohio State is anchored in Cleveland's deep emotional attachment to Ohio State (including important Cleveland historic figures such as Jesse Owens and Paul Brown and numerous lesser athletic figures, such as Heisman winner Troy Smith). The affection between Cleveland and Ohio State is much higher than the attachment between Cincinnati and Ohio State, significantly due to the presence of the Univ. of Cincinnati in the Queen City.
Something to consider about Ann Arbor is that it has a good/highly regarded school district and you can find a nice suburban area with Ann Arbor city limits. It is also a SD that covers areas outside of city limits as well.
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Comparing hospital ratings
A timely post.
