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Chestnut hill is pretty representative of what 5.5 miles from Boston is. 5.5 miles north is Medford, 5.5 miles southwest of the Loop in Much more urban than that.
Cicero IL is 7 miles away from Chicago and has a density of 14,000 posm. Whether you go 7 miles west to Watertown, north to Melrose, or South to Quincy it’s far less developed than that.
Evanston has almost 10,000 ppsm about 12 miles from Chicago. That’s far more than Peabody, Needham or Weymouth.
What does any of this have to do with the thread topic? Neither Wrigleyville nor Chestnut Hill are in the city center/downtown (or whatever term you want to use) of their respective city.
As far as size as a factor, larger cities will obviously have larger downtowns/city centers as a general matter -- that doesn't mean they are more urban by default (eg LA). If City A and City B have downtown cores that are equally urban pound for pound but City A's downtown is bigger -- that doesn't mean that City A's downtown is more urban; it just means it's bigger.
What does any of this have to do with the thread topic? Neither Wrigleyville nor Chestnut Hill are in the city center/downtown (or whatever term you want to use) of their respective city.
As far as size as a factor, larger cities will obviously have larger downtowns/city centers as a general matter -- that doesn't mean they are more urban by default (eg LA). If City A and City B have downtown cores that are equally urban pound for pound but City A's downtown is bigger -- that doesn't mean that City A's downtown is more urban; it just means it's bigger.
even if you only look at he Downtown core Chicago’s is like 3.5 sq miles and Boston’s is about 1.
Probably a dozen cities have a couple blocks that can pass as part of Downtown or midtown Manhattan. (Which is why cities as small as Pitt sub for NYC in movies) But none of those cities are as urban as Manhattan because they don’t have the scale.
even if you only look at he Downtown core Chicago’s is like 3.5 sq miles and Boston’s is about 1.
I would strongly disagree, putting semantics and arbitrary definitions aside, that Chicago's downtown/city center is 3.5 times larger than Boston's. But, again, the larger point I am making is that we should not be conflating geographic size with urban intensity -- those are two different things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4
Probably a dozen cities have a couple blocks that can pass as part of Downtown or midtown Manhattan. (Which is why cities as small as Pitt sub for NYC in movies) But none of those cities are as urban as Manhattan because they don’t have the scale.
Ok, but "a couple blocks" don't make downtown, do they?
If you can show me a city in the US whose downtown as a whole, pound for pound, has the same population, commercial, retail and infrastructural density as Manhattan I would have no problem saying that it is as urban as Manhattan, even if it's much smaller in size. But I don't think you can.
People discount Toronto's non-tower urbanity. Yes Toronto has significantly more towers than Boston, but in the areas immediately east and west and even north of the core there is still significant continuous urbanity and density at a much larger scale than Boston.
Not discounting it one bit. I just see the same kind of urbanity in Boston and Montreal. Those two cities are no slouches, so being in the same discussion as them isn't putting it down by any means.
NYC & Chicago are the definition of Urban in our country.
Well really just Manhattan and Downtown Chicago"
Pound for pound, San Francisco is top dog as well.
L.A is tricky because it's really Urban from Downtown to the Hollywood area, outside of that it's a palm tree jungle.
And can't forget Philadelphia, I think these are the most Urban by far and one could even throw in Toronto and Mexico City.
Not "could throw in." There is absolutely no reason to not include Mexico City, Toronto and Montreal (and really, even Vancouver) into this discussion.
Think of where one could easily live car-free... Montreal and Toronto are top 5-6 in NA without a doubt.
LA above Chicago? I think Chicago's urban core just feels way more dense. If you take away the o'hare neighborhood Chicago at one time had a population of 3.6 million in 170 square miles. The structural density is still there. NYC, Chicago and Mexico city and then everywhere else is a few tiers down. Cities like Dallas metro and Washington DC said might pass Chicago but they will never be like chicago. They'll never have that continuous urban structural density. They dont build cities like that anymore.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apparel
LA above Chicago? I think Chicago's urban core just feels way more dense. If you take away the o'hare neighborhood Chicago at one time had a population of 3.6 million in 170 square miles. The structural density is still there. NYC, Chicago and Mexico city and then everywhere else is a few tiers down. Cities like Dallas metro and Washington DC said might pass Chicago but they will never be like chicago. They'll never have that continuous urban structural density. They dont build cities like that anymore.
I think what you mean to say about Chicago is the grid extending out from the urban core of the city expanding out, is of the most contiguous. No one will argue against Chicago's urban core or the grid layout of the cores expansiveness. The debate I'm assuming that's being discussed is just within the urban cores themselves and not really the suburban areas.
What constitutes as the urban core? The city's core itself, or how the urban core extends out to it's suburbs and remains urban? Is Downers Grove a part of Chicago's core being discussed? Because that clearly is the suburbs:
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