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It's also interesting how Atlanta is leading the poll even though it's a good 6 hour drive from the Triangle, while Richmond is a little over 2 hours away. I'm not saying I agree with one or the other, just an interesting observation.
It definitely seems like a lot of money is coming back into Richmond. I'm not trying to offend but I actually think the city of Richmond is a lot nicer than the suburbs. I drove from downtown Richmond to Short Pump once (via Broad St/250) and wasn't really impressed with anything in-between. Maybe it was the stretch of road I was driving on but the area seemed a little old and dated. I'm sure most of Henrico is a lot nicer than the areas I went through, though. And I can't comment on Chesterfield Co because I haven't spent enough time there.
Chesterfield is just unremarkable suburbia/exurbia from what I've seen. Not too much to write home about IMO.
Chesterfield is just unremarkable suburbia/exurbia from what I've seen. Not too much to write home about IMO.
Gotcha. I've stopped in Chester, Virginia before but don't remember much about it.
Getting back to the original topic, I noticed one comment that suggested Raleigh was more similar to Atlanta and Durham was more similar to Richmond. That would be interesting to examine. Although I grouped Raleigh and Durham together for this thread, I believe the two still have notable differences, which might be far-fetched to say in this day and age. Granted, the two cities are obviously connected through RTP and share an airport, but it wasn't too far back when there was less sprawl between the two. This gave both cities their own identities. To this day, I've met plenty of people in Raleigh who rarely visit Durham and vice versa. To stop myself from rambling further, I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't see a problem comparing Raleigh with certain cities (Atlanta, Austin, etc.) and Durham with others (Richmond, Winston-Salem, etc.).
Last edited by costellopresley82; 08-21-2020 at 08:08 PM..
Gotcha. I've stopped in Chester, Virginia before but don't remember much about it.
Getting back to the original topic, I noticed one comment that suggested Raleigh was more similar to Atlanta and Durham was more similar to Richmond. That would be interesting to examine. Although I grouped Raleigh and Durham together for this thread, I believe the two still have notable differences, which might be far-fetched to say in this day and age. Granted, the two cities are obviously connected through RTP and share an airport, but it wasn't too far back when there was less sprawl between the two. This gave both cities their own identities. To this day, I've met plenty of people in Raleigh who rarely visit Durham and vice versa. To stop myself from rambling further, I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't see an issue comparing Raleigh with certain cities (Atlanta, Austin, etc.) and Durham with others (Winston-Salem, Richmond, etc.).
Agreed. Durham is even more similar to Winston than Richmond IMO. Similar universities (Duke, Wake Forest) and their respective hospitals, tobacco legacies, mid-sized, located in the same state, etc.
The one aspect that sets Winston apart is its closer proximity to Appalachia. That, and Durham obviously benefits from RTP.
Agreed. Durham is even more similar to Winston than Richmond IMO. Similar universities (Duke, Wake Forest) and their respective hospitals, tobacco legacies, mid-sized, located in the same state, etc.
The one aspect that sets Winston apart is its closer proximity to Appalachia. That, and Durham obviously benefits from RTP.
I agree that W-S and Durham are sister cities, while I'd say that Richmond is a relative. If we go way back in time and look at their relationships, one might call Richmond their wealthy uncle. In 1880, W-S had 4,194 residents and Durham only had 2,041, while Richmond was already a city of 63,600. By 1920, Richmond had ballooned to over 170,000; W-S hadn't yet reached 50,000 and Durham wasn't even 25,000.
There's a Gilded Age time-stamp on Richmond as evidenced by its formality and architecture that didn't happen to poorer and smaller places like Durham and W-S. You can "feel the Gentry" in Richmond. I think that any familial reference among the three is due to the architectural remnants of the tobacco industry. I also think that this is the grittiness that is often referenced and is something that Raleigh's history lacks in any significant way. Sure there was some textiles presence in Raleigh, but the main attraction was that Raleigh was purposefully built to be the state's capital. It didn't lead with industry; it lead with state government.
Beyond the remnants of industry that remain in Richmond, Durham and W-S, I don't see much in common between Richmond and any of the NC cities of similar size and stature.
Even with Durham's "grittiness", the entire Triangle is at its peak prominence today and each subsequent year as it grows. Where Richmond was nearer the top of food chain in the past, you can almost say that the Triangle is in its Guilded Age now. For most of USA history, neither Raleigh or Durham separately, nor the Triangle as whole was even in the same league as Richmond. I mean, I imagine that you couldn't have even put them in the same conversation without someone laughing at you.
Despite the the Triangle now being nearly 800,000 larger than Richmond, or Raleigh's small MSA alone being 100,000 people larger, it's really a relatively new dynamic in the region. This rapid ascent is more akin to Atlanta's story than it is Richmond's, and that's why I voted Atlanta in the poll. Certainly it's not exactly Atlanta's story, I just see more common threads.
I agree that W-S and Durham are sister cities, while I'd say that Richmond is a relative. If we go way back in time and look at their relationships, one might call Richmond their wealthy uncle. In 1880, W-S had 4,194 residents and Durham only had 2,041, while Richmond was already a city of 63,600. By 1920, Richmond had ballooned to over 170,000; W-S hadn't yet reached 50,000 and Durham wasn't even 25,000.
There's a Gilded Age time-stamp on Richmond as evidenced by its formality and architecture that didn't happen to poorer and smaller places like Durham and W-S. You can "feel the Gentry" in Richmond. I think that any familial reference among the three is due to the architectural remnants of the tobacco industry. I also think that this is the grittiness that is often referenced and is something that Raleigh's history lacks in any significant way. Sure there was some textiles presence in Raleigh, but the main attraction was that Raleigh was purposefully built to be the state's capital. It didn't lead with industry; it lead with state government.
Beyond the remnants of industry that remain in Richmond, Durham and W-S, I don't see much in common between Richmond and any of the NC cities of similar size and stature.
Even with Durham's "grittiness", the entire Triangle is at its peak prominence today and each subsequent year as it grows. Where Richmond was nearer the top of food chain in the past, you can almost say that the Triangle is in its Guilded Age now. For most of USA history, neither Raleigh or Durham separately, nor the Triangle as whole was even in the same league as Richmond. I mean, I imagine that you couldn't have even put them in the same conversation without someone laughing at you.
Despite the the Triangle now being nearly 800,000 larger than Richmond, or Raleigh's small MSA alone being 100,000 people larger, it's really a relatively new dynamic in the region. This rapid ascent is more akin to Atlanta's story than it is Richmond's, and that's why I voted Atlanta in the poll. Certainly it's not exactly Atlanta's story, I just see more common threads.
Great post. You're right, all of NC's cities were quite small until the 20th century, unlike cities in VA and SC that prospered from their locations along rivers (Richmond, Petersburg) and deep water ports (Norfolk, Charleston). There might be a little Gilded Age flavor in Durham and Winston-Salem (Reynolda House) due to their tobacco legacies, but both cities pale in comparison to Richmond in that regard. The Jefferson Hotel might be the best example of a place where you can truly "feel the gentry" in Richmond, or the mansions along Monument Ave.
With that being said, I do think Durham is the closest city in NC to Richmond (or Petersburg) in this day and age. Durham has a high Black population, progressive politics (Winston is more conservative), and a southern-style gritty reputation that has already been discussed. Richmond's Shockoe Bottom neighborhood looks a lot like Durham, too (IMO).
Great post. You're right, all of NC's cities were quite small until the 20th century, unlike cities in VA and SC that prospered from their locations along rivers (Richmond, Petersburg) and deep water ports (Norfolk, Charleston). There might be a little Gilded Age flavor in Durham and Winston-Salem (Reynolda House) due to their tobacco legacies, but both cities pale in comparison to Richmond in that regard. The Jefferson Hotel might be the best example of a place where you can truly "feel the gentry" in Richmond, or the mansions along Monument Ave.
With that being said, I do think Durham is the closest city in NC to Richmond (or Petersburg) in this day and age. Durham has a high Black population, progressive politics (Winston is more conservative), and a southern-style gritty reputation that has already been discussed. Richmond's Shockoe Bottom neighborhood looks a lot like Durham, too (IMO).
I still disagree with the Durham/Richmond thing, but I could get behind the Durham/Petersburg comparison for its grit from the past. Given how small Petersburg is today, it's amazing to think that it was larger than Durham in that same late 19th, early 20th Centuries time frame. Durham today is what Petersburg could have been.
I don't know that it's widely known just how far both Durham, but especially Raleigh have ascended. Raleigh entered the 21st Century as NC's second largest city by far, but at various times in the 20th Century it was smaller than Charlotte, Greensboro, Winston-Salem, Durham, Asheville, and Wilmington. Raleigh took hold of the #2 spot in the 1980s from Greensboro and hasn't looked back. Durham will also likely jump Greensboro sometime this decade.
Gotcha. I've stopped in Chester, Virginia before but don't remember much about it.
Getting back to the original topic, I noticed one comment that suggested Raleigh was more similar to Atlanta and Durham was more similar to Richmond. That would be interesting to examine. Although I grouped Raleigh and Durham together for this thread, I believe the two still have notable differences, which might be far-fetched to say in this day and age. Granted, the two cities are obviously connected through RTP and share an airport, but it wasn't too far back when there was less sprawl between the two. This gave both cities their own identities. To this day, I've met plenty of people in Raleigh who rarely visit Durham and vice versa. To stop myself from rambling further, I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't see a problem comparing Raleigh with certain cities (Atlanta, Austin, etc.) and Durham with others (Richmond, Winston-Salem, etc.).
The conversation has been had multiple times in Triangle threads, about the number of people from Rgh or Durm that do not venture into the other city or the other side of the metro. And its brought up plenty of strong opinions...
I've lived here (in Rgh) for the last 16 months. I've been to Durm 5 times. Some people have this opinion that everyone in the metro is in love with the entire metro and utilize metro-wide activities on the regular, which is so far from true, it is misleading to suggest it. This is my first time living here, but as I've mentioned before, I'm not unfamiliar with The Triangle. Back in 2013 I supercommuted to work in Durm for a few months, from Fayetteville, before heading to Clt. In that 3-4 months, I met a woman and started dating her, and even after I relocated to Clt I returned to Durm once a month for maybe half a year...
Aside from that, I had a close friend of mine who lived in Durm and as recently as '16 I would head to Durm 1-2 times a year to see him. So I've hung out there, ate out there, nightlife, shopped there, and up until meeting the mother of my children in late '15 (who grew up back and forth between Fuquay-Varina and Fay), I was much more familiar with Durm than I was with Rgh (though I'd hung out in Rgh a couple times)....within the last 5 years I've gotten much more knowledgeable and in tune with Rgh, based initially from the fact that half her family is here...
My reasoning in giving that backdrop is for years ive known plenty of people, on both sides, who don't hang out on the other side. This is one metro area that is actually two unique areas that just grew together over time, not dissimilar from the Hampton Roads dynamic between The Peninsula and Southside portions of that region. Triangulars (my nickname for Triangle locals lol) have gotten testy when you point this out in the past, as they feel it discredits the fact that this is one region---->it doesn't and that isnt the intent, it is simply giving a more accurate depiction in the function of the region...
While plenty of people do, everyone doesn't work at RTP or live on the sliver of land that Rgh city stretches into Durm, or whatever other examples people trump up for no reason. My experience has been that the average Raleighite, and the average Durhamite, I'm talking about the people that live in the actual cities themselves, they spend very little time in the other city, because they don't have to. Each side of the metro is self-sustaining even though obviously both sides are what they are because of each other...
That said, they aren’t as dramatically different as I think is sometimes indicated, even within this thread. They are literally a half hour downtown to downtown, they ain't that gotdamn different lmao, and if you spend enough time in both cities, it is far from difficult to notice the commonalities between the two. The way the differences between the two are sometimes portrayed, is like trying to say Virginia Beach and Hampton are just entirely different cities--->which while someone would understand your sentiment you're trying to convey in that statement, isn't really a transparent or truly honest comment...
I prefer Rgh mostly because I prefer larger cities and the indicators that Rgh is a larger city than Durm are several, and they are different enough cities, but they aren't polar opposites....
Quote:
Originally Posted by costellopresley82
Great post. You're right, all of NC's cities were quite small until the 20th century, unlike cities in VA and SC that prospered from their locations along rivers (Richmond, Petersburg) and deep water ports (Norfolk, Charleston). There might be a little Gilded Age flavor in Durham and Winston-Salem (Reynolda House) due to their tobacco legacies, but both cities pale in comparison to Richmond in that regard. The Jefferson Hotel might be the best example of a place where you can truly "feel the gentry" in Richmond, or the mansions along Monument Ave.
With that being said, I do think Durham is the closest city in NC to Richmond (or Petersburg) in this day and age. Durham has a high Black population, progressive politics (Winston is more conservative), and a southern-style gritty reputation that has already been discussed. Richmond's Shockoe Bottom neighborhood looks a lot like Durham, too (IMO).
Durm's comparison to Rich is overdramatized on here. Theres some basis of comparison here and you can see it, but thats as far as it is...
I'm very curious into where in Durm you feel looks like The Bottom. I dont see it and I don't feel it, there's an entire culture and atmosphere of The Bottom that isn’t embodied in Durm, The Bottom/Slip is a city unto itself...
To answer the OP outright, Triangle is more similar to Atlanta. It looks more like Atlanta, qnd grew more like Atlanta, and the personality of the region is more Atlanta-esque than Richmond-esque....
For the smart dumb ones in the room, this doesn't mean there aren't lines of similarity with Richmond. There are just more with Atlanta...
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