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I would say Tobacco Row in Richmond reminds me of downtown Durham. Granted, downtown Durham doesn't have a river and isn't as historic, but there are plenty of old tobacco warehouses that have been converted into lofts, offices, etc. Especially the American Tobacco Campus (near the Durham Bulls stadium) and Brightleaf Square.
Also, I agree that Durham and Raleigh have differences but aren't different worlds by any stretch. It's easier to spot differences if you've spent a lot of time in the area, and I grew up halfway between the two cities near Brier Creek so I know both well.
For those who don't know the relationship among all of the municipalities in the Triangle, here's a map of the municipal limits of them, though it's not completely representative of all of the development.
How about this? The Triangle is nothing like Richmond or Atlanta. It's a unique place and never tried to develop like anywhere else. I don't think the regional planners here travelled to Richmond or Atlanta to see how things were being done. This is a multi-nodal region and developed quickly because of the three major universities in the region. Which caused one of the largest research parks in the world to be developed in the middle with research and tech companies locating to the area. Nothing like this occurred in Richmond or Atlanta. I went to college in Atlanta and I didn't see or feel anything remotely similiar to the Triangle. But, Richmond and Atlanta do share a rich cival war history. However, the Triangle does not because it developed much later. In the Triangle, we never had schools or streets named after Confederate generals or large monuments dedicated to the Confederacy (i.e. Stone Mountain). Honestly, I rarely saw the Confederate flag while growing up so I was really surprised when I went to school in Georgia and saw the Confederate flag as part of the state flag. So, in conclusion the Triangle is nothing like Atlanta or Richmond and is creating it's own unique path. And the people here are happy with that. We do not necessarily take it as a compliment to be viewed as similar to either of those places. Real talk
How about this? The Triangle is nothing like Richmond or Atlanta. It's a unique place and never tried to develop like anywhere else. I don't think the regional planners here travelled to Richmond or Atlanta to see how things were being done. This is a multi-nodal region and developed quickly because of the three major universities in the region. Which caused one of the largest research parks in the world to be developed in the middle with research and tech companies locating to the area. Nothing like this occurred in Richmond or Atlanta. I went to college in Atlanta and I didn't see or feel anything remotely similiar to the Triangle. But, Richmond and Atlanta do share a rich cival war history. However, the Triangle does not because it developed much later. In the Triangle, we never had schools or streets named after Confederate generals or large monuments dedicated to the Confederacy (i.e. Stone Mountain). Honestly, I rarely saw the Confederate flag while growing up so I was really surprised when I went to school in Georgia and saw the Confederate flag as part of the state flag. So, in conclusion the Triangle is nothing like Atlanta or Richmond and is creating it's own unique path. And the people here are happy with that. We do not necessarily take it as a compliment to be viewed as similar to either of those places. Real talk
I think that's a very fair perspective, and I do agree with you. That said, I do think it's interesting to force yourself to answer a question that has only two possible answers. In the case of this thread, the qualifier of the question is "more": which is more similar?
I still disagree with the Durham/Richmond thing, but I could get behind the Durham/Petersburg comparison for its grit from the past. Given how small Petersburg is today, it's amazing to think that it was larger than Durham in that same late 19th, early 20th Centuries time frame. Durham today is what Petersburg could have been.
I don't know that it's widely known just how far both Durham, but especially Raleigh have ascended. Raleigh entered the 21st Century as NC's second largest city by far, but at various times in the 20th Century it was smaller than Charlotte, Greensboro, Winston-Salem, Durham, Asheville, and Wilmington. Raleigh took hold of the #2 spot in the 1980s from Greensboro and hasn't looked back. Durham will also likely jump Greensboro sometime this decade.
Definitely, or Durham could have been Petersburg if Duke University and RTP never existed.
That's strangely true. I often forget that Raleigh was quite small until the 1980's or so, as you mentioned. On a side note, I remember driving through Columbia, S.C. once and thinking, "This is basically Raleigh without the growth." In other words, a small-ish southern capital with a major university and not much else, aka Raleigh before RTP. No disrespect intended regarding Columbia, but it's an interesting thought. Personally, I don't remember the Triangle when it was small. By the time I was growing up, the entire area was booming. However, I've heard stories from people who remember when Anderson Drive was viewed as "North Raleigh," which is surreal if you look at the area now.
I think that's a very fair perspective, and I do agree with you. That said, I do think it's interesting to force yourself to answer a question that has only two possible answers. In the case of this thread, the qualifier of the question is "more": which is more similar?
Well, I think that's like asking the question is Charlotte more like New Orleans or Miami? Neither answer makes sense. I might as well put two names in a hat and the one I pull out is my answer. LOL To make this question valid you need metro areas that are somewhat similar. You can ask the question is the Triangle more like Austin or Nashville? I know they are very different but at least they are all fast growing tech centers.
I think that's a very fair perspective, and I do agree with you. That said, I do think it's interesting to force yourself to answer a question that has only two possible answers. In the case of this thread, the qualifier of the question is "more": which is more similar?
Quote:
Originally Posted by costellopresley82
Definitely, or Durham could have been Petersburg if Duke University and RTP never existed.
That's strangely true. I often forget that Raleigh was quite small until the 1980's or so, as you mentioned. On a side note, I remember driving through Columbia, S.C. once and thinking, "This is basically Raleigh without the growth." In other words, a small-ish southern capital with a major university and not much else, aka Raleigh before RTP. No disrespect intended regarding Columbia, but it's an interesting thought. Personally, I don't remember the Triangle when it was small. By the time I was growing up, the entire area was booming. However, I've heard stories from people who remember when Anderson Drive was viewed as "North Raleigh," which is surreal if you look at the area now.
I don't know why people keep mentioning Durham and Petersburg in the same breath. I've been thru Petersburg and nothing about it reminds me of Durham. Even without Duke and RTP, I think Durham would have done better than Petersburg just based on tobacco alone. However today, Durham is growing faster percentage wise than Charlotte or Raleigh with many new real estate and commercial developments taking place now and planned in the future. Durham has almost 10x the population of Petersburg. Also, taking Duke and RTP away would make the whole Triangle region much smaller including Raleigh. So, that is truly a unrealistic hypothetical scenario.
Well, I think that's like asking the question is Charlotte more like New Orleans or Miami? Neither answer makes sense. I might as well put two names in a hat and the one I pull out is my answer. LOL To make this question valid you need metro areas that are somewhat similar. You can ask the question is the Triangle more like Austin or Nashville? I know they are very different but at least they are all fast growing tech centers.
Well, I don't think that the two comparative cities in the OP's question are so out of bounds that they're pointless to consider. After all, they are also cities in the Southeast and in the Piedmont.
Oh, and I'd answer Austin if I was asked to choose, but that's not what this thread is about.
I don't know why people keep mentioning Durham and Petersburg in the same breath. I've been thru Petersburg and nothing about it reminds me of Durham. Even without Duke and RTP, I think Durham would have done better than Petersburg just based on tobacco alone. However today, Durham is growing faster percentage wise than Charlotte or Raleigh with many new real estate and commercial developments taking place now and planned in the future. Durham has almost 10x the population of Petersburg. Also, taking Duke and RTP away would make the whole Triangle region much smaller including Raleigh. So, that is truly a unrealistic hypothetical scenario.
The points to consider are not what Petersburg or Durham are today, but what they were 100+ years ago when the structures of the cities were coming into their own. Those things are more similar to each other.
The comments are not intended to be a comparison of what the two places are today, because they surely couldn't be more different in what's happened to them since then.
Definitely, or Durham could have been Petersburg if Duke University and RTP never existed.
That's strangely true. I often forget that Raleigh was quite small until the 1980's or so, as you mentioned. On a side note, I remember driving through Columbia, S.C. once and thinking, "This is basically Raleigh without the growth." In other words, a small-ish southern capital with a major university and not much else, aka Raleigh before RTP. No disrespect intended regarding Columbia, but it's an interesting thought. Personally, I don't remember the Triangle when it was small. By the time I was growing up, the entire area was booming. However, I've heard stories from people who remember when Anderson Drive was viewed as "North Raleigh," which is surreal if you look at the area now.
This is a map of Raleigh in the early 60s. The city is barely north of Anderson Drive at that time, as it spilled over the recently completed north arc of the Beltline into what is now Midtown.
That map was before my time, but when my family moved to Raleigh in the 70s, it was tens of thousands of people smaller than Cary is today. All of Wake County was just 250,000 or so, and I40 ended at Wade Ave. on the Raleigh end, and dumped into the Durham Freeway on the other end. You literally couldn't pass through the Triangle on an Interstate; you could only bounce back and forth between Raleigh and Durham on the small completed section.
As for Columbia, it was slightly larger than Raleigh until the early 60s when RTP started making its impact on growth, so your perception has merit.
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