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Sure JAX has more jobs, so if jobs are what you want, go to Jax. Of course you'll be in the South with lower wages and few unions. Sure it "supports a Nordstroms"- but I never bought there because we Yankees are frugal and not flashy. So what is "supporting a Nordstroms" measuring? People who like to spend their money on clothes?
I mentioned jobs and Nordstrom as a counter to rowhomecity repeatedly throwing out 'generational wealth' and GDP. These things matter in regards to both, and are barometers of a good economy.
And all Yankees aren't so frugal, or Metro Boston wouldn't be loaded with so many luxury retailers.
Sure JAX has more jobs, so if jobs are what you want, go to Jax. Of course you'll be in the South with lower wages and few unions. Sure it "supports a Nordstroms"- but I never bought there because we Yankees are frugal and not flashy. So what is "supporting a Nordstroms" measuring? People who like to spend their money on clothes?
I'm not sure who made the point about Nordstroms, but it's a Seattle-based luxury department store chain and I wouldn't classify its merchandise as flashy at all, but rather classy. Whether a metro area can support one (and not simply the discount Nordstrom Rack) depends on factors like market size, disposable income, proximity to existing stores, etc. It seems that they tend to locate in metro areas of at least 1M and is considered something of a desired retailer expected in metros of a particular size (along with others like Whole Foods, Costco, IKEA, Nieman Marcus, etc.) . While a full-fledged Nordstrom isn't in Rhode Island, there are a handful in Boston and its suburbs.
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If you want a newer much cheaper home in a newer neighborhood, go to Jax. If you want a home with history and character- albeit at a premium price- come here. Don't come to RI though if you really can't afford it, because our low income neighborhoods are as bad as Jax's low income neighborhoods and you don't want to be in either.
Jacksonville has plenty of historic homes with character and the city itself is more historic than most know; it just didn't do a good job of preserving all of its history, but its oldest residential neighborhoods such as Springfield, Ortega, Avondale, the Cathedral District, etc. have a respectable stock of older homes with character.
Jacksonville has plenty of historic homes with character and the city itself is more historic than most know; it just didn't do a good job of preserving all of its history, but its oldest residential neighborhoods such as Springfield, Ortega, Avondale, the Cathedral District, etc. have a respectable stock of older homes with character.
Nice to know.
I just looked up the Ortega neighborhood on Zillow. Prices seem to range from 500k upwards into the millions- comparable to the East Side of Providence- so unsure as to what range the OP is looking for.
Still however, comparing anywhere in New England to a city in Florida is apples to oranges.
And all Yankees aren't so frugal, or Metro Boston wouldn't be loaded with so many luxury retailers.
I think you'll find that a lot of the shoppers in Boston at the high end stores are foreign tourists. I have frequented Boston often and that is a personal observation over many visits. Not all, but a lot!
However, what with the exchange rates and the pandemic, that situation may change very rapidly.
Which surrounding areas within the core? Five Points? San Marcos? Where else?
It really depends on what you call downtown and what you think is nice. All the places I mention below are at least decently walkable, by FL standards anyway. So the entire list of possible "nice" urban core neighborhoods besides downtown could be:
Springfield - Pretty nice. Still a little rough but this "neighborhood" is HUGE and the already nice area is pretty large.
Riverside - The most popular urban core neighborhood in Jax. Five Points is located in Riverside. Was very cool 5-10 years ago now it is mostly over-gentrified and yuppy.
Avondale - Definitely nice and more high end than Riverside.
San Marco - Definitely nice and mostly on the higher end. Not super vibrant though but that's slowly changing.
Brooklyn - Definitely nice but not historic or charming. 99% of the history is gone. I can only think of less than 10 historic contributing structures that are still standing. Often gets lumped in with downtown. If we include it then downtown suddenly isn't so bad.
Southbank - Definitely nice but sometimes lumped in with downtown. Same thing...if we include it with downtown then downtown again isn't so bad.
Fairfax - Pretty nice but also quite small. It is right next to the wealthy Ortega area mentioned up above. (But Ortega isn't really walkable)
St Nicholas - Kinda ok. This place is next to San Marco and used to be a nice streetcar suburb. While there are still some really nice homes by the river, some of this neighborhood is rundown and the commercial/retail sections are mostly pretty awful.
btw, these are all the gentrifying or nice neighborhoods in Jax urban core. There are a number of others that are not "nice" (in other words, historically black and low income) yet very historic and somewhat walkable too. Eastside, Phoenixville, etc so just wanna point that out cause I only mentioned the places where young white middle class folk are moving.
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Originally Posted by Hollytree
When I think of comparing and contrasting these two cities, I think primarily of size and history.
Jacksonville is a sprawling spread out metropolitan area with plenty of room to sprawl more. That's probably good for economics. RI has compact cities and towns- Providence isn't that big- it's only big in terms of an MSMA and I would never think of New Bedford & Fall River as being part of it. Totally different communities.
Sure JAX has more jobs, so if jobs are what you want, go to Jax. Of course you'll be in the South with lower wages and few unions. Sure it "supports a Nordstroms"- but I never bought there because we Yankees are frugal and not flashy. So what is "supporting a Nordstroms" measuring? People who like to spend their money on clothes?
If you want a newer much cheaper home in a newer neighborhood, go to Jax. If you want a home with history and character- albeit at a premium price- come here. Don't come to RI though if you really can't afford it, because our low income neighborhoods are as bad as Jax's low income neighborhoods and you don't want to be in either.
I don't mean to suggest that you're wrong in your post above, but just want to say that you risk panting too broad a brush on Jacksonville, in ways that further the common misconceptions of it. So you're correct that Providence has way more history and is way more compact than Jax. But be aware that Jax has some good urban bones and also a ton of history and character for a southern city. It has a really rich history going back a few centuries, but also from an architectural point of view the entire urban core was rebuilt after a fire in 1901 and famous architects from around the country came to make an imprint on the city. Yes, Jax's shortsightedness led to the destruction of a lot of this history (LaVilla completely wiped out, eg) but there's still a good bit of character left. It's one of the few things that makes Jax stand out in a positive way for urbanists.
Regarding the numerous streetcar suburbs in Jax's urban core: I repeat this statistic often in these forums. Jacksonville's streetcar system was 61 miles long and carried 20 Million passengers per year in 1930.
Again, this cannot compare to Providence, but just saying it's not nothing.
I just looked up the Ortega neighborhood on Zillow. Prices seem to range from 500k upwards into the millions- comparable to the East Side of Providence- so unsure as to what range the OP is looking for.
Still however, comparing anywhere in New England to a city in Florida is apples to oranges.
Anyone like to compare Boston to Orlando?
Miami and Boston would make for a better comparison. Both are immigrant gateways, particularly for Caribbeans, and each has a municipal population lower than their actual sizes would suggest and is hemmed in by the Atlantic and lots of smaller surrounding municipalities. The thing each is arguably known for the most--Miami or South Beach and Harvard--are in neighboring municipalities. Cape Cod/Martha's Vineyard/Nantucket are like Boston's Florida Keys. Miami Beach and Pronvincetown are very well-known LGBT-friendly beach towns.
While the two cities are obviously more different than alike, I didn't realize until now how many key similarities they have.
Miami and Boston would make for a better comparison. Both are immigrant gateways, particularly for Caribbeans, and each has a municipal population lower than their actual sizes would suggest and is hemmed in by the Atlantic and lots of smaller surrounding municipalities. The thing each is arguably known for the most--Miami or South Beach and Harvard--are in neighboring municipalities. Cape Cod/Martha's Vineyard/Nantucket are like Boston's Florida Keys. Miami Beach and Pronvincetown are very well-known LGBT-friendly beach towns.
While the two cities are obviously more different than alike, I didn't realize until now how many key similarities they have.
I have 6/7 friends and acquaintances (maybe more?) born in Miami but who grew up in Boston (usually Jamaicans) they say everything you just said. And similar gentrification stories.
I voted for Rhode Island. I used to live in providence. In addition to providence and Newport, there are also other great coastal areas that haven’t been mentioned like block island, narragansett, watch hill, Jamestown, Bristol, etc. The trails in the black stone valley are also pretty scenic too. Being able to take the train to Boston and nyc is pretty great too. I agree that the economy could be better but I still put it overall above Jacksonville for me. The architecture in Newport and providence is outstanding.
I voted for Rhode Island. I used to live in providence. In addition to providence and Newport, there are also other great coastal areas that haven’t been mentioned like block island, narragansett, watch hill, Jamestown, Bristol, etc. The trails in the black stone valley are also pretty scenic too. Being able to take the train to Boston and nyc is pretty great too. I agree that the economy could be better but I still put it overall above Jacksonville for me. The architecture in Newport and providence is outstanding.
I lived in Rhode Island for 18 years and Florida for 12 years. In my opinion, both states have their merits and demerits. However, it should be noted that the built environment of Rhode Island is, arguably, the oldest and most threadbare of any U.S. state. And unlike neighboring Connecticut and Massachusetts, Rhode Island has notably less New England charm due to the dearth of town greens anchored by white-steeple Congregational churches. Accordingly, most of Rhode Island feels grungier and more depressing than most of Florida; a young child could tell you that. Also, winters in Rhode Island are long and depressing. For the record, it snowed in Rhode Island yesterday, on October 30. When you combine the poor, shabby infrastructure and long, depressing winters of Rhode Island with the generally complacent, insular attitudes and grating accent of local residents, Rhode Island often feels like the Twilight Zone. I left the state for good in 2000 and have no intentions of ever returning.
Last edited by Bert_from_back_East; 10-31-2020 at 01:26 AM..
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