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You may want to provide examples, as I think you're just focusing on the bland burbs that come to mind, and not thinking this through. The DC-Baltimore region expands four states + DC. There are Chesapeake Bay towns, and towns in Blue Ridge mountains that are very different from one another. Also the entirety of the DC/Baltimore area is not bland suburbia, there are exurban towns that are uniquely distinct to the Mid-Atlantic region and colonial past. What makes Harpers Ferry, and Annapolis similar? How about Hagerstown and Arlington? Or Towson and Fredericksburg? Tysons, VA and Dundalk, MD are part of the same CSA region, what in the greater Bay area has a larger contrast than that? Please explain.
This doesn't even mention the more distinctive difference that Washingtony, almost built like a North American form of Paris, and Baltimore a major port city in the NE/Mid-Atlantic sit 38 miles apart closer than SF/SJ. DC and Baltimore locals speak with different accents. How is the Bay Area more unique in that sense? SJ could just be any city any NoCal or SoCal. Oakland and SF have similar topography although the cities do have their differences too.
You can literally enter the DC CSA from what is widely regarded as the "South" and by the time you exit the CSA you are in the "North", and honestly going West it's another entirely different feel as you head towards Appalachia. Does the Bay Area California border three regions like that?
The more I think of the topic even more I'm convinced that DC-Baltimore is the more "distinctive" or "varied" CSA as you move across it. Regardless of having a mix of bland suburbia in between. Maybe I should have used those words in the title.
I'll say this cities like Arlington, Towson, Tysons imo feel pretty similar to me. Somewhat feels like Silver Springs or Hyattsville. At least for the short time I was in these areas. Urbanize suburbs. Didn't feel that much different than some burbs in North Atlanta imo. Hagerstown/ Fredericksburg/ Harpers Ferry and Annapolis definitely feel different from one another. I mean these are much older cities as well so they're definitely distinctly different from one another I'll give you that.
Now DC and Baltimore having different accents from one another is definitely unique. Similar to a New Orleans- Baton Rogue dynamic. But let's not pretend San Francisco and Oakland don't have their own distinct characteristics from one another. Yeah, they don't have different accents but they couldn't be farther apart from one another.
And San Francisco and Oakland are only 22 minutes/12 miles from one another. The City and the town is a real unique distinction. San Jose has less character than the 2 but I wouldn't say it could be any city in Norcal or Socal just because it doesn't have a definitive culture. San Jose is a culmination of South Bay culture and the subregion of Silicon Valley. Even though it's not a definitive culture because SJ is in the shadows of a world class city such as San Francisco and the activist cultural hub of Oakland and that sub region of Silicon Valley it's still it's own thing and is not anywhere Socal or Norcal.
I say that because one, take for instance East Bay. East Bay has more working class communities and is a little more grit. Think Oakland Raiders when you think of East Bay and that fanbase. San Francisco is the cultural hub and the city. A westcoast city with some eastcoast flair. Sausalito is like a Mediterranean seaside town. Marin County is one of the most beautiful diverse geographically regions in America. I don't think DC-BMORE CSA has anything quite beautiful as Marin County. Than you have quirky towns like Palo Alto or Mountain View that are quite different from areas like Santa Rosa or Berkley. San Rafael is nothing like Hayward so I don't get this "any Norcal city" you speak of. There's a lot of variety within the Bay Area. You also have Napa Valley which is a contrast from Half Moon Bay or Muir Beach.
Maybe because I'm a lot more familiar with the Bay Area but I really think you're sleeping on the Bay.
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8,128 posts, read 7,560,868 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redlionjr
I'll say this cities like Arlington, Towson, Tysons imo feel pretty similar to me. Somewhat feels like Silver Springs or Hyattsville. At least for the short time I was in these areas. Urbanize suburbs. Didn't feel that much different than some burbs in North Atlanta imo. Hagerstown/ Fredericksburg/ Harpers Ferry and Annapolis definitely feel different from one another. I mean these are much older cities as well so they're definitely distinctly different from one another I'll give you that.
Now DC and Baltimore having different accents from one another is definitely unique. Similar to a New Orleans- Baton Rogue dynamic. But let's not pretend San Francisco and Oakland don't have their own distinct characteristics from one another. Yeah, they don't have different accents but they couldn't be farther apart from one another.
And San Francisco and Oakland are only 22 minutes/12 miles from one another. The City and the town is a real unique distinction. San Jose has less character than the 2 but I wouldn't say it could be any city in Norcal or Socal just because it doesn't have a definitive culture. San Jose is a culmination of South Bay culture and the subregion of Silicon Valley. Even though it's not a definitive culture because SJ is in the shadows of a world class city such as San Francisco and the activist cultural hub of Oakland and that sub region of Silicon Valley it's still it's own thing and is not anywhere Socal or Norcal.
I say that because one, take for instance East Bay. East Bay has more working class communities and is a little more grit. Think Oakland Raiders when you think of East Bay and that fanbase. San Francisco is the cultural hub and the city. A westcoast city with some eastcoast flair. Sausalito is like a Mediterranean seaside town. Marin County is one of the most beautiful diverse geographically regions in America. I don't think DC-BMORE CSA has anything quite beautiful as Marin County. Than you have quirky towns like Palo Alto or Mountain View that are quite different from areas like Santa Rosa or Berkley. San Rafael is nothing like Hayward so I don't get this "any Norcal city" you speak of. There's a lot of variety within the Bay Area. You also have Napa Valley which is a contrast from Half Moon Bay or Muir Beach.
Maybe because I'm a lot more familiar with the Bay Area but I really think you're sleeping on the Bay.
I think you're under the impression that I'm saying it's more "physically beautiful" than the Bay Area. I'm not. There's nothing to sleep on here on either end, because I'm not talking about which region "looks better". I'm saying how do you differentiate the towns across the region's, and which CSA is more varied as you go from end to end, therefore making it more unique. Santa Clara County really could be anywhere at least in the West/Southwestern US. That county is a large swath of land mass.
DC and Baltimore are not more similar than Oakland and SF. There are differences with Oak/SF, but it just doesn't compare to DC-Balt. The cities have two different accents locally, and their own sub-markets. The actual Southern/mid-Atlantic dialect line runs throughtout the DC-Baltmore stretch of the East Coast. Once you exit the metro to the South, the accents are undeniably Southern. Once you exit the metro to the North/Northeast the accents are completely "Northern accents", while in between you can find everything. Going West/NW out of DC-Baltimore on I-70 you'll start feeling like you're in Appalachia very quickly. SF doesn't have this dynamic, you're still surrounded by the West in all directions.
In the mid-Atlantic the counties are smaller, and particularly in most of the metropolitan regions of the East, not just the DC-Baltimore area, you can go 40 miles or less from West to East and cover rolling Piedmont fall line hilly neighborhoods, densely packed urban cities, sprawling suburbs, older distinct exurbs, and shore lines of their beaches or bays. Virginia has wine country and Luray Caverns right to the West of the metro area. There's civil war battlefields in between the list goes on. There's a lot of water across the DC/Balt region, but not a large beach until you hit the Eastern Shore. Still with towns like Annapolis situated on the Chesapeake there's a contrast to those blander suburbs. I know the Bay Area gets different weather across it's region, but that too is a bit differentiation along the mid-Atlantic metros from end to end.
I think you're under the impression that I'm saying it's more "physically beautiful" than the Bay Area. I'm not. There's nothing to sleep on here on either end, because I'm not talking about which region "looks better". I'm saying how do you differentiate the towns across the region's, and which CSA is more varied as you go from end to end, therefore making it more unique. Santa Clara County really could be anywhere at least in the West/Southwestern US. That county is a large swath of land mass.
DC and Baltimore are not more similar than Oakland and SF. There are differences with Oak/SF, but it just doesn't compare to DC-Balt. The cities have two different accents locally, and their own sub-markets. The actual Southern/mid-Atlantic dialect line runs throughtout the DC-Baltmore stretch of the East Coast. Once you exit the metro to the South, the accents are undeniably Southern. Once you exit the metro to the North/Northeast the accents are completely "Northern accents", while in between you can find everything. Going West/NW out of DC-Baltimore on I-70 you'll start feeling like you're in Appalachia very quickly. SF doesn't have this dynamic, you're still surrounded by the West in all directions.
In the mid-Atlantic the counties are smaller, and particularly in most of the metropolitan regions of the East, not just the DC-Baltimore area, you can go 40 miles or less from West to East and cover rolling Piedmont fall line hilly neighborhoods, densely packed urban cities, sprawling suburbs, older distinct exurbs, and shore lines of their beaches or bays. Virginia has wine country and Luray Caverns right to the West of the metro area. There's civil war battlefields in between the list goes on. There's a lot of water across the DC/Balt region, but not a large beach until you hit the Eastern Shore. Still with towns like Annapolis situated on the Chesapeake there's a contrast to those blander suburbs. I know the Bay Area gets different weather across it's region, but that too is a bit differentiation along the mid-Atlantic metros from end to end.
CSA-wise, the large difference isn't Oakland and SF. It's more like SF and Stockton.
I also don't think there's all that much that's like Santa Clara county. It's a pretty odd place in a lot of ways.
On the CSA level, the geographic contrasts for the Bay Area are very large, because the fairly tall mountains means a lot of different climates, flora, fauna, and settlement patterns. You get coyotes, elk, and pronghorns even in Santa Clara County. You can go whale watching. You can have fairly dry and dusty areas once you cross into the San Joaquin Valley. You have towering redwoods. The CSA has a fairly large frontage with the Pacific Ocean and the fogs and winds it brings in, immediate to that are coastal ranges, sometimes a bay or sometimes a valley, and then even taller mountains, and then a massive basin so climate changes, especially rainfall and extreme temperatures from one to the other. Going by CSA means including all of that for the Bay Area.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 10-13-2021 at 08:43 PM..
SF cuz of Donner Pass ski areas nearby, the wine country.......
Mavericks, Pleasure Point and Steamer Lane nearby.
followed by Chicago land for it's iconic City, tall architecture and interesting people.
and DC a distant 3rd
DC is over rated imo. Plenty of nice areas and all....
the worst traffic in the nation
so let's build 80,000,000 sq ft more office sprawl.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler
CSA-wise, the large difference isn't Oakland and SF. It's more like SF and Stockton.
I also don't think there's all that much that's like Santa Clara county. It's a pretty odd place in a lot of ways.
On the CSA level, the geographic contrasts for the Bay Area are very large, because the fairly tall mountains means a lot of different climates, flora, fauna, and settlement patterns. You get coyotes, elk, and pronghorns even in Santa Clara County. You can go whale watching. You can have fairly dry and dusty areas once you cross into the San Joaquin Valley. You have towering redwoods. The CSA has a fairly large frontage with the Pacific Ocean and the fogs and winds it brings in, immediate to that are coastal ranges, sometimes a bay or sometimes a valley, and then even taller mountains, and then a massive basin so climate changes, especially rainfall and extreme temperatures from one to the other. Going by CSA means including all of that for the Bay Area.
Fair points. I agree with most of that. Definitely the natural diversity/variance wins the matchup. I do however think with regards to local cultures, the cities/towns that make up each CSA, you see more of it in the East, especially mid-Atlantic because it's sandwiched between so much in so little space. I don't know of another major metro region that essentially sits in the middle of two major Census regions and at least borders or is a part of three different sub-regions. I think the Bay CSA and DC-Baltimore are the two most unique probably in all of the US, or at least after LA/NYC, so it's really splitting hairs to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by odurandina
SF cuz of Donner Pass ski areas nearby, the wine country.......
Mavericks, Pleasure Point and Steamer Lane nearby.
followed by Chicago land for it's iconic City, tall architecture and interesting people.
and DC a distant 3rd
DC is over rated imo. Plenty of nice areas and all....
the worst traffic in the nation
so let's build 80,000,000 sq ft more office sprawl.
Posts like this clearly show you have no understanding of the assignment for this thread.
Fair points. I agree with most of that. Definitely the natural diversity/variance wins the matchup. I do however think with regards to local cultures, the cities/towns that make up each CSA, you see more of it in the East, especially mid-Atlantic because it's sandwiched between so much in so little space. I don't know of another major metro region that essentially sits in the middle of two major Census regions and at least borders or is a part of three different sub-regions. I think the Bay CSA and DC-Baltimore are the two most unique probably in all of the US, or at least after LA/NYC, so it's really splitting hairs to me.
Posts like this clearly show you have no understanding of the assignment for this thread.
It's not a part of a major census area division, but part of that also has to do with California being defined as a rather large state and the Bay Area is on the waterfront away from the borders. The natural diversity / variance heavily informs a lot of other differences between parts of the Bay Area "proper" versus the San Joaquin Valley where you can have odd farming communes which are almost entirely populated by hard scrabble mostly Mexican descent often first-generation farm laborers or areas that are pretty desolate. Add in a bit of variety with the Central Coast and it gets pretty odd.
I think the argument for Chicagoland in this one would be that so much of Chicagoland's density and development is focused in the intensely developed greater Loop area and up the north side's lakefront and meanwhile the CSA traverses into a lot of very rural areas or very abandoned areas, so while the climactic diversity isn't huge in comparison to the other two, the difference in built density and all that comes with it really is especially at the peak.
CSA-ish, DC-Baltimore. It hits a lot of different types of geographies, states, regions, and cultures. I say CSA-ish, because there's certainly a lot of differences once you get really far outside of the Bay Area that's nowhere near being on the bay, but are part of the extremely expansive CSA with Central Coast counties and Central Valley counties and these regions have very different identities, histories, and geographies from the Bay Area.
Bay Area is probably the most unique region in America
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