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Don't get me wrong, your point is valid. I just think that if you did begin expanding the range in the St. Louis area, you'd be suprised how few additional murders were added to the total numbers. That's why it's metro area actually ranks as safer than Phoenix's (don't take that the wrong way - it's not a shot at PHX). Everybody knows St. Louis does have some very rough areas surrounding its core. Some of the roughest in the country. But from what I gather, almost all of those suburbs that would be included if the limits were expanded are rather safe.
Like another poster earlier, I grew up in Cincinnati, which supposedly is a lot like St. Louis. Again, our numbers look terrible on paper. But I know less than 10 miles outside of center city in any direction you are as safe as any place in America. So in this case adding an additional few hundred miles to the city limits would only add an additional 6 or 7 murders maybe, but probably another 750k people or so. Don't you think that would make people's perception of safety much different?
In the end, does any of this really matter? Well I guess it does if you are unfortunate enough to live in a crime infested area. But for most of us, we have the means to avoid those areas at all costs. So whether we live in a city with a murder rate of 10 or 50, our chances of becoming a victim remains the same - practically nill.
Cincinatti is 80 square miles...not a tiny city by any means. There is a wide variety of sizes in cities that range from low to high murder rates - and it doesn't have anything to do with the size of the city. A few examples:
1. Birmingham - a city that doesn't look good on paper for murders - is 151 square miles.
2. Memphis - still another city that doesn't look good on paper for murders - is 313 square miles.
3. Raleigh - a city that does look good on paper - is just slightly larger than Cincinatti at 115 square miles.
4. Providence - another city that looks good on paper - is only 20 square miles.
Comparing city crime rates can be difficult since cities have all developed differently and have unique boundaries that will have an influence on how statistics can be manipulated. All places are going to have shady areas that could be reflected in the statistics to skew results. Like the saying goes "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." I think you can really only use metro crime statistics to get an overall feel of how safe any given area is going to be.
Comparing city crime rates can be difficult since cities have all developed differently and have unique boundaries that will have an influence on how statistics can manipulated. All places are going to have shady areas that could be reflected in the statistics to skew results. Like the saying goes "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." I think you can really only use metro crime statistics to get an overall feel of how safe any given area is going to be.
Cincinatti is 80 square miles...not a tiny city by any means. There is a wide variety of sizes in cities that range from low to high murder rates - and it doesn't have anything to do with the size of the city. A few examples:
1. Birmingham - a city that doesn't look good on paper for murders - is 151 square miles.
2. Memphis - still another city that doesn't look good on paper for murders - is 313 square miles.
3. Raleigh - a city that does look good on paper - is just slightly larger than Cincinatti at 115 square miles.
4. Providence - another city that looks good on paper - is only 20 square miles.
It is when compared to most of the cities on the list with lower murder rates.
Anyways, your list is rather amusing. We all know there are exceptions to every rule. Birmingham and Memphis? A little Captain Obvious, don't ya think? But the best, Raleigh and Providence, that's just hilarious.
this sq mile crap is dumb, miami is only 55.27 sq mi , which means it would be the most dangerous. and it only has around 65-85 murders a year( city) and back in the day the city with less of a population than now had over 120 a year pre 1998, and pre 1993 it use to avg 200-400.
Here's a list of all the cities by average number of murders per square mile of land:
Baltimore, MD 2.9
Newark, NJ 2.8
St Louis, MO 2.7
Philadelphia 2.6
Chicago 2.2
Detroit, MI 2.2
San Francisco, CA 2.1
Oakland, CA 2.0
Miami, FL 1.8
New York 1.7
Cleveland, OH 1.3
Pittsburgh 1.3
Boston, MA 1.3
Rochester, NY 1.2
New Orleans, LA 1.0
Cincinnati, OH 0.9
Baton Rouge, LA 0.9
Long Beach, CA 0.8
Los Angeles, CA 0.8
Atlanta, GA 0.8
Milwaukee, WI 0.7
Jackson, MS 0.6
Birmingham, AL 0.5
Columbus, OH 0.5
Sacramento, CA 0.5
Houston, TX 0.5
Memphis, TN 0.5
Omaha, NE 0.4
Kansas City, MO 0.4
Denver, CO 0.4 (not counting the airport which is 53 square miles)
Fresno, CA 0.4
Mobile, AL 0.4
Orlando, FL 0.4
Phoenix, AZ 0.3
San Antonio, TX 0.3
Tulsa, OK 0.3
Charlotte, NC 0.3
Tucson, AZ 0.3
Indianapolis, IN 0.3
San Diego, CA 0.2
Nashville, TN 0.2
Louisville, KY 0.2
Ft Worth, TX 0.2
Dallas, TX 0.2
Jacksonville, FL 0.1
Las Vegas Metro, NV 0.01 (The Las Vegas Police department covers all of Clark County)
not really completely useful because murders are usually mostly concentrated in certain areas, and also to different degrees because different cities have different population densities (with the densest being near the top of the list, which make sense), plus cities have their unpopulated industrial and parkland/undeveloped areas of various sizes...but it's still interesting.
Here's a list of all the cities by average number of murders per square mile of land:
Baltimore, MD 2.9
Newark, NJ 2.8
St Louis, MO 2.7
Philadelphia 2.6
Chicago 2.2
Detroit, MI 2.2
San Francisco, CA 2.1
Oakland, CA 2.0
Miami, FL 1.8
New York 1.7
Cleveland, OH 1.3
Pittsburgh 1.3
Boston, MA 1.3
Rochester, NY 1.2
New Orleans, LA 1.0
Cincinnati, OH 0.9
Baton Rouge, LA 0.9
Long Beach, CA 0.8
Los Angeles, CA 0.8
Atlanta, GA 0.8
Milwaukee, WI 0.7
Jackson, MS 0.6
Birmingham, AL 0.5
Columbus, OH 0.5
Sacramento, CA 0.5
Houston, TX 0.5
Memphis, TN 0.5
Omaha, NE 0.4
Kansas City, MO 0.4
Denver, CO 0.4 (not counting the airport which is 53 square miles)
Fresno, CA 0.4
Mobile, AL 0.4
Orlando, FL 0.4
Phoenix, AZ 0.3
San Antonio, TX 0.3
Tulsa, OK 0.3
Charlotte, NC 0.3
Tucson, AZ 0.3
Indianapolis, IN 0.3
San Diego, CA 0.2
Nashville, TN 0.2
Louisville, KY 0.2
Ft Worth, TX 0.2
Dallas, TX 0.2
Jacksonville, FL 0.1
Las Vegas Metro, NV 0.01 (The Las Vegas Police department covers all of Clark County)
not really completely useful because murders are usually mostly concentrated in certain areas, and also to different degrees because different cities have different population densities (with the densest being near the top of the list, which make sense), plus cities have their unpopulated industrial and parkland/undeveloped areas of various sizes...but it's still interesting.
Well, yeah...that's a good list - but useless. Murders aren't counted PER SQUARE MILE, but per 100,000 residents.
Well, yeah...that's a good list - but useless. Murders aren't counted PER SQUARE MILE, but per 100,000 residents.
I know they're not counted by square mile, and I know they ARE counted by incidents per 100,000 residents......which is exactly why i spent the time to make a list by murders per square mile.
I know they're not counted by square mile, and I know they ARE counted by incidents per 100,000 residents......which is exactly why i spent the time to make a list by murders per square mile.
I didn't mean for my post to sound as if I were attacking you...my apologies if it did. I could see we were both making the same point.
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