Better city: Jacksonville Vs. Norfolk

[murksiderock]

Originally Posted by projectmaximus

I cannot answer the comparison to Norfolk as I've never been. I can tell you that Jax hasn't had any game changers since 2007...the real estate crash really crushed all of the significant developments that were on the table at the time...but it has improved incrementally and I guess in 9 years that has added up to at least a noticeable difference in vibe.

IMO Downtown has gone from a C- to a B-. The residents and daily retail are still sorely lacking but the nightlife has improved tremendously. I'd say speaking strictly of nightlife that downtown has gone from a D to a B. This is tenuous, however, as downtown seems to constantly be taking two steps forward and then 1.5 back. So not sure if this improvement will be lasting. In any case still a long way to go.

The most dramatic improvements have been to the urban core neighborhoods surrounding downtown. Riverside was just starting to dip its toe into nightlife and scratch the surface of its potential...2007 it was still considered by many to be a dangerous, crime-ridden area, particularly in specific blocks. Now its easily the hottest hood in town by many metrics, and a bonafide nightlife district. Also really the only large area of Jax that can genuinely be considered walkable on a daily basis. Toss in the transformations of Springfield, San Marco, Murray Hill, Brooklyn and even Avondale now (was always nice but infrastructure improvements have really made it ideal) and without a doubt these inner ring streetcar suburbs are way better than they were.

I don't really know if it's anything like the multinodal region of Norfolk, but we do have an area halfway between downtown and the beaches that has blown up as well. It's largely suburban and totally generic, but it is extremely popular and offers a lot of amenities in a somewhat connected cluster. At the core is one of those quasi-walkable outdoor lifestyle centers that are all over the country, however this one is on steroids and phases 3 and 4 are under development. Add to that several nearby/adjacent clusters of retail, residential and offices and, based on what is proposed, when it's all said and done you're looking at probably 2-3k acres of contiguous mixed uses with about 1/3rd of it well-designed for walkability. Far cry from what it would be like if all this development had been modified for ideal density/walkability, but at least decent enough to offer some semblance of it. (And definitely a shame this didnt happen closer to downtown)

Lastly, the beaches neighborhoods have seen substantial infill. From an urbanity standpoint the overall region has gone from maybe a C to a B but there are now several really good, dense pockets of activity.

Interesting. I know that Norfolk has made gains in the last decade as well, though not on the same level as Richmond...

The Norfolk Premium Outlets is opening next summer near the airport in the Lake Wright area. It's a suburban area maybe similar to the shopping you described in Jacksonville. Also, the return of a revamped Waterside District next Spring will add to the shopping downtown. Norfolk does shopping pretty well already; these two projects will only serve to enhance that...

I don't know much about the beach neighborhoods in Norfolk City. Ocean View is pretty much the premier beach hood in town. I do know that Norfolk has always likely had a better urban core. The immediate downtown area and surrounding neighborhood is pretty dense and above average in shopping, dining, and nightlife. There is a large area of the city, probably at least half, that is walkable...