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Chicago and Philadelphia are probably the best in terms of reasonable amenities, opportunities, and living expenses.
It should be asked how much of a big city feel you want though. You can certainly do urban living in quite a few other smaller cities (Pittsburgh, Seattle, Twin Cities, Portland) especially if you plan on living close to where you work.
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bizchick86
I was initially thinking "why is Atlanta on the list" since I'm a native Atlantan and adore it, but urbanity is certainly not what I think of when it comes to my city. However, I had to kind of retract that, since I'm a native suburban Atlantan, as are most of the people who question Atlanta's urbanity. I'm sure living within city limits is an entirely different experience.
This is exactly why people always scoff at urban living in Atlanta. No disrespect to you (since you admitted it in a intelligent way), but I just don't understand this line of reasoning. Far to often on these boards when someone says that Atlanta is urban, those who have a problem with it will say it isn't and mention something about a subdivision 10 miles outside the city limits
Before I get into a rant, and provide fuel for those on CD who Atlanta no matter what, let me break it down for the OP:
For all of the criteria you laid out, you'll be able to live like that in all of the cities on the list (Yes, even L.A. and Atlanta). All of them have dense neighborhoods, subways, diverse populations, world class dining, theatre, museums, and all of the good things that go along with urban living.
The thing you should concern yourself with if you are just starting out in the adult world is where will you find a job. Every city in this country has been hit hard by the recession. It's a really, really, really bad idea to just move to a city and expect to be handed success. Make finding a job your first priority before anything else.
You should also keep in mind that the credit crunch has made it near impossible for young adults to get financing for a house these days. Banks are much stricter with whom they lend to and if you are fresh out of college you more than likely won't get a great loan (if one at all) right away. You may need to live in apartments for a while to build your credit and work history.
Secondly, while all cities offer pretty much the same amenities their specific city cultures are you unique. You should gravitate towards one that more fits who you are. For instance, if you are West Coaster you will more than likely feel really out of place in the East.
Lastly, you should realize what cities won't do for you. Living in any particular city won't make you cooler, or have more friends, or any other social activity that's based around who you are as a person.
Ok, enough of my lecture. Just wanted to get this out of the way before people start descending on this thread "debating" the "urbanity" of a city based on nonsensical things like the amount of people per square mile or if there is a bodega every 3 blocks.
^ Well.... I used to attend Georgia Institute of Technology, and lived on campus right outside of downtown Atlanta for 5 years. Although I lived right in the very heart of the city, I never thought Atlanta felt "urban" at all. The city itself felt quite suburban to me. MARTA isn't up to par with the metro systems of the northeastern cities and the "energy" just isn't there. I say this with all due respect...But when you come from someplace like NYC, very few places in the sunbelt (Miami being somewhat of an exception but even it isn't that urban) can give you that "urban" experience.
Different people have different standards resulting from their particular upbringing. I'd like to echo the sentiments of previous posters and say that the OP needs to determine just what his/her "urbanity threshold" level is. It might be that a city of Atlanta's urbanity level is what he/she is looking for, or then again, it may not. If you want a truly walkable city though, I don't suggest Atlanta. You almost certainly will need a car.
EDIT: And there is nothing "nonsensical" about density in a talk about a city's urbanity. Density is extremely important because it is directly related to a city's "walkability index" --- In other words, there is a direct correlation between density and mass transportation options (or lack thereof), quality of said mass transportation options, how close businesses are to where you live (which is important because the poster has said he wants to be walk/bike and ditch the car), and employment density.
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancer78
^ Well.... I used to attend Georgia Institute of Technology, and lived on campus right outside of downtown Atlanta for 5 years. Although I lived right in the very heart of the city, I never thought Atlanta felt "urban" at all. The city itself felt quite suburban to me. MARTA isn't up to par with the metro systems of the northeastern cities and the "energy" just isn't there. I say this with all due respect...But when you come from someplace like NYC, very few places in the sunbelt (Miami being somewhat of an exception but even it isn't that urban) can give you that "urban" experience.
Well, nothing compares with NYC when it comes to citylife. Some people like think other places do, but they are just fooling themselves.
I agree with war and Lancer. Basically Atlanta is better than I think some give it credit for, and you can get a pretty urban experience in Atlanta, but those other cities in the poll are on a different level to me.
While I don't live in intown Atlanta, I do just about everything else there. You just don't get the same kind of energy in Atlanta as you would in a northeastern city, San Fran, or Chicago. It has the potential, but it's just not there yet.
You'd have to experience it to determine if it offers enough of what you're looking for. At the same time, which war touched on, other factors will come into play that will determine whether or not the extreme urbanity of a place like NY is what you want. I've mentioned this on numerous occassions, but being a young, professional twenty-something, New York can be hard to live in. Fun, yes. But difficult? Hell yes. The housing costs, competition for space (and pretty much everything else), and need to work multiple jobs to support yourself in New York might make you go crazy and keep you from doing all the fun things that attracted you to New York in the first place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancer78
^ Well.... I used to attend Georgia Institute of Technology, and lived on campus right outside of downtown Atlanta for 5 years. Although I lived right in the very heart of the city, I never thought Atlanta felt "urban" at all. The city itself felt quite suburban to me. MARTA isn't up to par with the metro systems of the northeastern cities and the "energy" just isn't there. I say this with all due respect...But when you come from someplace like NYC, very few places in the sunbelt (Miami being somewhat of an exception but even it isn't that urban) can give you that "urban" experience.
Different people have different standards resulting from their particular upbringing. I'd like to echo the sentiments of previous posters and say that the OP needs to determine just what his/her "urbanity threshold" level is. It might be that a city of Atlanta's urbanity level is what he/she is looking for, or then again, it may not.
Well, nothing compares with NYC when it comes to citylife. Some people like think other places do, but they are just fooling themselves.
But Atlanta "suburban"? In what way?
Admittedly "suburban" may not have been the best use of words on my part but what I mean is that the foot traffic, in general, in Atlanta is relatively low (by Chicago or northeastern standards). Vehicular traffic in the city itself is surprisingly light (although highways, at times, can get somewhat busy, I don't consider it nearly as bad as many Atlantans say it is). Outside of the now defunct Freaknik, the city is rather "quiet," and at least to me, low density..Even major streets like Peachtree have relatively low activity levels.
I haven't lived in Atlanta in 8 years, and I know it's been through a growth spurt, but I doubt the general trends have changed that much.
Admittedly "suburban" may not have been the best use of words on my part but what I mean is that the foot traffic, in general, in Atlanta is relatively low (by Chicago or northeastern standards). Vehicular traffic in the city itself is surprisingly light (although highways, at times, can get somewhat busy but it is nowhere near as bad as Atlantans say it is). The city is rather "quiet."..Even major streets like Peachtree are pretty low in activity level.
I haven't been to Atlanta in 8 years, and I know it's been through a growth spurt, but I doubt the general trends have changed that much.
Nope, it hasn't changed much. In fact, it seems to have gotten even more quiet in the last few years. Don't know if folks are moving out to the suburbs or what it is, but the activity level is eerily low sometimes. And yes, Atlanta traffic is waaay overhyped. Even in rush hour I get around easily in the city. Again it's those OTPers that make claims about Atlanta that really don't relate to much within the city limits.
If it's one thing I can change about Atlanta it's the number of folks in the actual city (500,000 vs. 5 mil in the entire metro). There is just way too much affordable housing in the city for people not to be taking advantage of it. If Atlanta's developments actually had people in it, and that density translated into more street activity and better mass transit, Atlanta would be perfect to me. Right now, it's just close to perfect :- )
Chicago and Philadelphia meet all of your criteria including cost of living.
The others(not sure about Atlanta) are much more expensive.
I agree both Chicago and Philadelphia meet the OP's criteria.
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