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Outside of city data, I wouldn't consider New Yorkers to be any more or less provincial than people from LA, Chicago, San Francisco, Boston, Houston or any other city that has city pride where that "my city is the greatest city" attitude is often misunderstood as being ignorant to things outside of the city, because all of those cities and others still a population filled with people from all over the country and world who as very well educated and well traveled and generally have an open mind.
However, on this board, I would say the New Yorkers on City Data are by far the most provincial. Many New Yorkers on this board are very close minded and ignorant towards anything outside of the tri-state area. As a New Yorker myself, I hate that individuals on this board cause people to think that all New Yorkers are that way because they aren't.
For the most part I agree that outside of C-D many NYers are not this provincial, but I gotta say that I have come across quite a few in person here in CA that are even worse than what I see on C-D. And I have had friends from other parts of the country saying the exact same thing. The common quote these d-bag NYers love to say when they travel somewhere else and want to berate wherever they are is, "this would never happen in New York!" I used to work at two different hotels where I had to hear that one repeatedly, and a friend of mine from SC had the exact same thing happen to her in the hotel she worked at.
But it goes way beyond just that. I was never even concerned about bi-coastal differences until a friend of mine in high school who had moved out here from NYC (BK to be exact) started picking apart the music we would listen to, the styles people had out here, there not being enough crime in our news, etc...you name it, she couldn't accept it. If it wasn't from NY it wasn't good enough to her small mind. (If she wasn't so tight with one of my best friends I doubt I would have even become friends with her in the first place - but she is a good person beyond her insecurities.)
I won't bore you with the long list of personal experience I have had with provincial NYers, but I assure you this is not unique to C-D. I spent much of my life under the assumption that the majority of NYers were like this since I had come across it so often out here and online and on TV and in movies, magazines and music. Its a big city, but c'mon! Compared to the rest of the country or the world its a tiny, insignificant blip on the map; the small-minded tards need to realize that once in a while.
However, after having traveled to NY and being around plenty more of them over the years (and even interacting with cool ones here on C-D - yes there are plenty that are cool as hell ), I've come to realize that the jerks are in the minority. I think most NYers are likely cool folks and don't have their heads this far up their asses. But I think that minority is significant enough to exist quite a bit beyond C-D, and that it is entirely too large even if it doesn't count for most NYers.
Hey you can go ahead and try to justify their provincialism all you please. It still doesn't change the fact that those who see things the way that is illustrated in that pic are provincial.
Why? New York City is considered one of the three cultural centers of the world so of course from New York perspective most of the US is culturally irrelevant. Do you think anybody outside of your own town really cares about its culture nad arts? Do you think New Yorkers are an exception here?
This forum is so funny, it is called city-data but most folks post from little two-bit town without real culture and voice their serious opinions about all things urban...
The entire thread sounds like "little America" revenge on New York City but at the end you are not going to win that war. Maybe in this forum but in real life you can't live w/o New York's arts, media and business while New York does not give a rat's ass about your existance.
Go ahead, call New York City provincial, at the end of the day you will absorb New York based art, culture, journalism, TV without blinking...
I don't see why that matters. The thread seems to be referring to "provincialism", a focus on one's own place to the exclusion of others. Saying "you focus on us too" is not a counter-argument to that.
It's strange to me how many people on C-D argue "against" a position by essentially saying "Your statement is true, but we're right to be X!" Like someone will say Muslims are Anti-Semitic and intolerant, which leads to a Muslim chiming in with "How dare you! Don't you realize we are the only True Faith and that the Jews have blinded you!" Other places I've been that's not what a Muslim would do. I don't entirely understand it.
An argument against New York being provincial would be more that you have so many cultural events that concern things that don't derive from New York. Exhibits of artists from Europe, fashion shows involving models from Africa, celebrations of various immigrant groups. That even if New Yorkers do not go to the world the world comes to New York City and that New Yorkers notice it. That you are the center of a stock market that is deeply concerned with financial events outside the city. That you are the location of the UN and that that shows a concern for the world outside. That the idea "New Yorkers don't see the world" is itself exaggerated or false and that you have plenty of international travelers. That maybe you don't care what happens in Lubbock, but that you do care about the truly major cities of the world. And besides Lubbock or Wichita likely don't think about Muskogee or Texarkana that much. Stuff like that.
Now if New Yorkers really don't care about the Haitian earthquake, the global economy, the Iraq war, the Afghanistan war, the American car industry, or global warming than I think that means you are insular/parochial. That others watch NYC based shows wouldn't change that.
I don't see why that matters. The thread seems to be referring to "provincialism", a focus on one's own place to the exclusion of others. Saying "you focus on us too" is not a counter-argument to that. .
Really? So in order not to be accused of provincialims New Yorkers should be focused on let's say Milwaukee?
The problem with this thread is that nobody seems to understand what provincialism means. It's not the same as being self-centered or self-absorbed: Paris being a center of European culture and alrgely focused on itself is not provincial, neither are London or Tokyo - all very self-absorbed....
The countryside may be provincial but not a dominant city in any country. You simply can't be provincial if you are a leader... Check your dictionaries, kids.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R.
Now if New Yorkers really don't care about the Haitian earthquake, the global economy, the Iraq war, the Afghanistan war, the American car industry, or global warming than I think that means you are insular/parochial. That others watch NYC based shows wouldn't change that.
Right. Every time I open New York Times I can't believe why they focus so much on shopping malls in Queens as opposed to world news and economy. You are kidding, right?
Just pick up New York Times or Wall Street Journal and then any of the big papers in the country....
Why are so many people picking New York? It is the last city I would consider provincial.
Not sure what city I would pick. Probably a midsize or smaller city in the South (non-tourist areas), Midwest, or Rocky Mountain regions. Salt Lake City maybe? Or Tulsa?, Little Rock?, Omaha?
Thought the same thing. I had to recheck the dictionary to confirm my understanding of the word "provincial."
Compared to the rest of the country or the world its a tiny, insignificant blip on the map; the small-minded tards need to realize that once in a while.
For those who don't know the L.E.S. of NY, let me translate...
"Edgy and fashionable" means going to an "ironic" bar, for example, a bar called the "Cake Shop" which serves cake and dessert like a cake shop but has a bar downstairs. Or paying a cover charge to cram into Max Fish because it's the purported home of the tattoo sleeve trend. Or paying a cover for the Pianos bar, a store that used to sell pianos and is now a bar. That's what hipsters like. Some other examples:
Beauty Bar
Arlene's Grocery
Pete's Candy Store
"Edgy and fashionable" must also mean paying happy hour prices of $4 a beer, then paying $8 for a crappy burger (i.e. Rush Hour) and then paying $8 for a Crepe.
And doing it all in skinny jeans (halfway down your butt, of course, in ironic pseudo-gangsta style), pink Puma's, Bedhead haircut, Elvis Costello glasses, pork pie hat or fedora, and (for the men) a scruffy, sparse beard.
THIS ^^^^ is what hipsters consider "greater aspirations"...
I was going to the L.E.S. long before the hipsters ruined it. It used to be desolate with a few little spots for eating and drinking, and some good shopping. Same with the East Village. Now, it's Disneyworld for Hipsters. It's ruined and sucks like most neighborhoods in Manhattan.
NYC's prowess in business and the arts is what keeps it an amazing city. Tourism also keeps NY going strong. Native New Yorkers are far and few between anymore, most people are transplants who have adopted the snobbery that TV and movies taught them they're supposed to have as "New Yorkers".
The ultimate hipster irony for NYC hipsters (which is, sadly, lost on them) is that while they themselves started off as touristy transplants they deride the tourists who come to visit the city. Take a long hard look in the mirror, hipsters...you hate yourselves.
Wrong again. Fail. I think you're jealous, but I don't blame you.
As long as there are successful people, there will be fat, bitter and mediocre people who live in the boonies resenting them for being everything they're not. You are obviously jealous of me because I live someplace fabulous aka the Big Apple and you don't. I have it all, you don't. Get over it. I live in what many would refer to as the Center of the Universe - and you don't. Just accept it and move on with your life.
Every time I travel the country and wind up in these awful "cities" and tell them that I'm from Manhattan, they are either very elated or come across as very hostile towards me. People like you at some point in their lives come to the same realization Henry Hill came to at the end of Goodfellas, which was "I'm an average nobody. I get to live the rest of my life like a schnook." And they need to find someone to blame.
I love living in this city because I travel, look around and see what a ****ing sch muck I would be if I were like everyone else and lived a life of mediocrity in one of those low-budget loserville cultural wastelands.
Wrong again. Fail. I think you're jealous, but I don't blame you.
As long as there are successful people, there will be fat, bitter and mediocre people who live in the boonies resenting them for being everything they're not. You are obviously jealous of me because I live someplace fabulous aka the Big Apple and you don't. I have it all, you don't. Get over it. I live in what many would refer to as the Center of the Universe - and you don't. Just accept it and get over it.
Every time I travel the country and wind up in these awful "cities" and tell them that I'm from Manhattan, they are either very elated or come across as very hostile towards me. People like you at some point in their lives come to the same realization Henry Hill came to at the end of Goodfellas, which was "I'm an average nobody. I get to live the rest of my life like a schnook." And they need to find someone to blame.
I love living in this city because I travel back "home", I look around and see what a ****ing sch muck I would be if I were like everyone else.
Really? So in order not to be accused of provincialims New Yorkers should be focused on let's say Milwaukee?
No, not specifically. Although awareness that Milwaukee exists, a rough estimate of its size, and knowledge of what state is in might be good.
Still I think it's more "an interest and understanding of things outside your own city or province" that's meant. A New Yorker with no interest in Milwaukee, but with an interest in London and Shanghai and what goes on in DC, is not provincial.
Quote:
Originally Posted by breakthrough
The problem with this thread is that nobody seems to understand what provincialism means.
I think it's that it has more than one meaning and that is causing some confusion.
My dictionary states "limited in outlook, narrow" is one definition for "provincial" and Princeton wordnet lists that as a definition of "provincialism." However another definition is "rural, peasant" or "lacking in sophistication."
The thing is only a few cities are "rural, peasant" and possibly none are because simply by being urban you are not really rural. Even if your city is the home of an agricultural college, like maybe Tallahassee, it's not necessarily rural. So if what is desired is "the most rural city" you might be dealing with a contradiction in terms. However "limited in outlook, narrow" you might not be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by breakthrough
Just pick up New York Times or Wall Street Journal and then any of the big papers in the country.... Like five years olds...
Exactly my point. That much of New York City is focused on the wider world is an argument against it as provincial.
Saying that it's a big city everyone notices is a non-sequitir.
I have no experience with NYC but from what I've seen and read I think it's both provincial and not provincial. It's a big complicated city with a bit of both.
No, not specifically. Although awareness that Milwaukee exists, a rough estimate of its size, and knowledge of what state is in might be good.
Still I think it's more "an interest and understanding of things outside your own city or province" that's meant. A New Yorker with no interest in Milwaukee, but with an interest in London and Shanghai and what goes on in DC, is not provincial.
I think it's that it has more than one meaning and that is causing some confusion.
My dictionary states "limited in outlook, narrow" is one definition for "provincial" and Princeton wordnet lists that as a definition of "provincialism." However another definition is "rural, peasant" or "lacking in sophistication."
The thing is only a few cities are "rural, peasant" and possibly none are because simply by being urban you are not really rural. Even if your city is the home of an agricultural college, like maybe Tallahassee, it's not necessarily rural. So if what is desired is "the most rural city" you might be dealing with a contradiction in terms. However "limited in outlook, narrow" you might not be.
Exactly my point. That much of New York City is focused on the wider world is an argument against it as provincial.
Saying that it's a big city everyone notices is a non-sequitir.
I have no experience with NYC but from what I've seen and read I think it's both provincial and not provincial. It's a big complicated city with a bit of both.
Thomas, decent education is better than a dictionary which provides a simplistic and very concise definitions. Historically, provinciality relates to "province" or "countryside" as apposed to capital cities which were often not part of any provinces. Historically big cities were centers of culture and not much has changed since the old days. It was the countryside that was copying the styles and trends from big cities not the other way around and nothing changed ion few thousand years of civilization.
I think the problem is that most people in this forum do not understand the definition of provincialism, otherwise they would never accuse New Your City of being provincial, the whole argument is laughable.
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), I've come to realize that the jerks are in the minority. I think most NYers are likely cool folks and don't have their heads this far up their asses. But I think that minority is significant enough to exist quite a bit beyond C-D, and that it is entirely too large even if it doesn't count for most NYers.
