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Atlanta MSA: 5.5 million
San Francisco MSA: 4.3 million
Even the CSA of San Francisco Bay Area isn't much bigger than Atlanta...I mean, when an area hits 5 million residents it's hard to tell the difference in one with 1 million more. That said, I would choose San Francisco over Atlanta since I've lived in Atlanta for a few year - SF would be a more interesting trip for me. But if the OP is looking for a good time on a budget, then Atlanta is a much better option.
Well it's certainly more than 1 million larger than Atlanta.
That still depends on whether you are considering MSA or CSA. San Jose is not that close to SF.
Yes they are far by eastern standards, but they are connected by a linear line of dense urban development squeezed between mountains and the bay, cris-crossed with large freeways and rail transportation.
I don't think this says anything. I bet the freeways connecting LA and Riverside, LA and San Diego also have very significant traffic each day, but they don't count Riverside or San Diego into the LA metro area. Commuter rails are usually designed to connect CSA, not MSA. This can be seen from the LA example also. LA has far more commuter trains that extends to very far regions than SF, but they are not one MSA. Even inside the SF MSA, it is less connected than some MSAs because of different fares and passes for buses and BART in different regions, etc. For example here in MSP we have a unified public transporation system. San Jose to SF is a good one hour drive without traffic. This is too much for most MSAs in US.
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Originally Posted by sbarn
As I've mentioned in other threads, the fact is that no matter what the US Census says, San Francisco is part of a large urban (a.k.a. "metropolitan") area called the Bay Area, which also includes San Jose and Oakland. The area shares public transportation networks (BART, CalTrain), radio stations, local tv broadcasting stations, and so on and so forth. The NY Times even has a section on the greater Bay Area.
Wrong. Four major freeways cross between the "border" between the San Francisco / Oakland MSA and the San Jose MSA. According to CalTrans (HERE) freeway traffic volumes are as follows:
On the peninsula at the San Mateo / Santa Clara county line - the MSA "border" - the Bayshore Freeway (101) carries 200,000 vehicles per day and I-280 carries 100,000 vehicles per day.
In the East Bay at the Contra Costa / Santa Clara county line - the MSA "border" - I-880 carries 180,000 vehicles per day and I-680 carries 135,000 vehicles per day.
Additionally, CalTrain carries an additional 40,000 commuters a day between San Francisco and San Jose, and BART carries
When combined, that's nearly a half a million people crossing the line on an average daily basis between "two" metropolitan areas. That's pretty significant commuting...
Most Bay Area folks don't know that the region now includes San Benito County. Its a big county with a small population.
I suspect we're also going to add San Joaquin County in the 2010 census and that will push the Bay Area to about 8.5 Million people.
Quote:
I'm not sure what kind of math you're using, but according to my calculations the SF CSA is larger than the Atlanta CSA by about 400 square miles...not a large margin, but still a margin.
Like I said, Most people have no idea that San Benito is part of the Bay Area.
I've never seen a region so unaware of its size and scope as the Bay Area. The place is very decentralized as there are several centers of gravity-people there have no idea what the population is. Its funny.
Also,
I have to say that based on my experience in Atlanta and the Bay Area, the Bay Area feels a bit larger like when you drive around it as opposed to Atlanta which is obviously very large too. I think it has to do with the constant density for such a wide distance in the Bay Area.
Dunno, but that's my observation.
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The SF CSA is at 7.4 million...the Atlanta CSA is at 5.8 million. SF is a larger metro area than Atlanta, but not a MUCH larger one - that was the point I was trying to make, so no need to get defensive and/or post misinformation.
Well, the State of California(which is almost always right) estimates the Bay Area now has 7.8 Million people and I expect the Census will confirm that.
There was no intentional misinformation by frsno1 as he and I have discussed this very topic in the CaliForum.
I know kid said the census is crap because of what he or she felt how culturally the bay area is connected... ok it still has the commuting ties of a CSA and not a MSA. Yeah the US census is the boogie monster that doesn’t like the northeast and some of the west coast cities, and favor sunbelt cities. LMAO
No not a boogie monster but no stats are perfect - they work very well to tie connections in areas where there is large areas that seperate metros.
another example:
There is a city 10.8 miles from another city that has a local sports radio station for a city of which the census designates in another metro. But they broadcast from there because they believe it is centrally located to broadcast to people who feel a connection (be it sports) to the other metro (or at least what the census calls the other metro). That seems odd to me but shows that distance and city connection can have zero to do with how the census breaks up certain metros.
Yes the commuter patterns place it in a metro of which people do not associate themsleves to outside of +1,700 net commuter pattern to large office complex one county away - at least the radio station keeps them entertained on the long 10 mile commute
The description of the area reads. "is located 10.8 miles north of Philadelphia and part of the greater Philadelphia region known as the Delaware Valley yet is considered in New York metropolitan area by the US Census bureau..."
So yes I think the census designations can not always portray connections or even population size in areas that have small distances between large cities.
I don't think this says anything. I bet the freeways connecting LA and Riverside, LA and San Diego also have very significant traffic each day, but they don't count Riverside or San Diego into the LA metro area. Commuter rails are usually designed to connect CSA, not MSA. This can be seen from the LA example also. LA has far more commuter trains that extends to very far regions than SF, but they are not one MSA. Even inside the SF MSA, it is less connected than some MSAs because of different fares and passes for buses and BART in different regions, etc. For example here in MSP we have a unified public transporation system. San Jose to SF is a good one hour drive without traffic. This is too much for most MSAs in US.
Well then clearly you have little knowledge of the Bay Area, or California for that matter, if you think the relationship between San Diego and Los Angeles is similar. And also, I've never heard a unified transportation as a metric for measuring an MSA.
In any event, as you continue to argue whether or whether not the Bay Area is really an urban metropolitan region, I will make the alleged incredible journey to travel the distance from the San Jose MSA to San Francisco for some Friday night fun.
Of course I've been to the Bay area. My point is the metrics you proposed are not good ways of indicating whether they should be one metro area or not. Because the LA region will fit your metrics also, but they are obviously different. Besides from Riverside to LA it is actually very continuously developed. But my real opinion is, no matter how continuously develped the region is, if there is no way to quickly get from one major center to the other due to the distance, with or without traffic, they still can't be one MSA. SF to SJ is approximately one hour and it is same with Washington DC and Baltimore, Riverside and LA, Worcester and Boston, etc. and none of them are considered one metro area. The distance itself would disquality them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbarn
Well then clearly you have little knowledge of the Bay Area, or California for that matter, if you think the relationship between San Diego and Los Angeles is similar. And also, I've never heard a unified transportation as a metric for measuring an MSA.
In any event, as you continue to argue whether or whether not the Bay Area is really an urban metropolitan region, I will make the alleged incredible journey to travel the distance from the San Jose MSA to San Francisco for some Friday night fun.
Cheers.
Last edited by fashionguy; 05-21-2010 at 07:57 PM..
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But if the OP is looking for a good time on a budget, then Atlanta is a much better option.
