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Old 05-21-2010, 11:35 PM
 
Location: The City
22,378 posts, read 38,910,924 times
Reputation: 7976

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair View Post
Your source is incorrect if your talking city to city.

I have driven NY-Philly about 5 times and SF-SJ about a gazillion times and they are not even remotely the same drive time.

According to Google Maps:
SF to SJ: 55 Minutes by Car
NY to Philly: 1hr 50 Minutes by Car.

Now I will agree that the fringe suburbs of each are very close relatively speaking but you don't see the sort of interdependence that would warrant combining the NY and Philly CSAs.

Philadelphia happens to be an incredibly strong job center and cultural center on its own.

I agree on your last point - I have also driven from SJ to SF numerous times and drive to North Jersey and NY (though usually Acela when going into Manhatten) at least twice a week. I can get from CC Philadelphia to the Lincoln tunnel in 65 minutes (seriously) I do it all the time. Now getting through the tunnel time can vary widely. The Acela Express is 55 minutes with two stops from 30th st to Penn Station.

btw google maps takes you about 22 miles further than you need to go - (95 to 90 to 73 to NJ Turnpike) 65 minutes! Trust me I do it every week
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Old 05-21-2010, 11:40 PM
 
Location: The City
22,378 posts, read 38,910,924 times
Reputation: 7976
and the seperating line between these two current NYC CSA and Philly MSA is just as dense as what you show, it is between Morrisville PA and Trenton NJ - I am trying to find a picture to compare to yours - only difference there is river but connected by many bridges - people actually walk to work in Trenton from Morrisville yet they are seperated by the census
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Old 05-21-2010, 11:42 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX/Chicago, IL/Houston, TX/Washington, DC
10,138 posts, read 16,041,021 times
Reputation: 4047
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair View Post
There could 100 Million people in that 46-mile stretch but if the development, regional interdependence and commuter numbers are not there then all those people are meaningless as far as attempting to combine 2 of the strongest independent CSAs in the nation.

I just don't see it, but then what do I know-the rules change all the time.

Just keep in mind, if the rules are loosened then they are loosened for everyone and if NY and Philadelphia get to marry then there are going to a bunch of huge weddings across America.

LOL
LOL!! There seriously are, LA/SD, ATX/SA, PHX/Tucson...
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Old 05-21-2010, 11:42 PM
 
Location: Los Altos Hills, CA
36,655 posts, read 67,506,468 times
Reputation: 21239
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
I agree on your last point - I have also driven from SJ to SF numerous times and drive to North Jersey and NY (though usually Acela is going into Manhatten) at least twice a week. I can get from CC Philadelphia to the Lincoln tunnel in 65 minutes (seriously) I do it all the time. Now getting through the tunnel time can vary widely. The Acela Express is 55 minutes with two stops from 30th st to Penn Station.

btw google maps takes you about 22 miles further than you need to go - (95 to 90 to 73 to NJ Turnpike) 65 minutes! Trust me I do it every week
Well, now I know a quicker way of getting to Philly.

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Old 05-21-2010, 11:57 PM
 
Location: The City
22,378 posts, read 38,910,924 times
Reputation: 7976
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair View Post
There could 100 Million people in that 46-mile stretch but if the development, regional interdependence and commuter numbers are not there then all those people are meaningless as far as attempting to combine 2 of the strongest independent CSAs in the nation.

I just don't see it, but then what do I know-the rules change all the time.

Just keep in mind, if the rules are loosened then they are loosened for everyone and if NY and Philadelphia get to marry then there are going to a bunch of huge weddings across America.

LOL

I agree - they moved nearly a million people out of the Philly CSA in the last Census - Trenton (Mercer County which is 11 miles from Philadelphia) which was once part of the Philly MSA to the NY CSA (The beneficiaries were Federal employees that recieved a 8.8% pay increase due COL adjuestment including a census office) and Atlantic and Cape May County NJ due to AC commuter trends with Casino development in AC.

BTW Trenton has Philadelphia Sports radio station that broadcasts in the NY census region because the listeners relate to Philly - odd really
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Old 05-22-2010, 12:29 AM
 
Location: Jersey Boy living in Florida
3,717 posts, read 8,183,607 times
Reputation: 892
Trenton is closer to Philly than New York I believe, but its pretty much in the middle of New Jersey to the West. I think just the fact that it's on the west side would make it easier to get to Philadelphia.
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Old 05-22-2010, 12:46 AM
 
1,542 posts, read 6,040,062 times
Reputation: 1705
kidphilly, please drop this whole "philly is only 46 miles from nyc" mantra that you keep repeating in every.single.thread. it's a very tired argument, and you're totally misrepresenting the true distance between these cities.

when people describe the distance from one city to another, they are generally talking about the trip from downtown to downtown (i.e the central business district, center city, or "core"), NOT the distance between the most remote fringes of the city limits, which is meaningless in the context to which you keep trying to apply it (i.e. that nyc and philly are so close that they're practically neighbors). sure, the outer suburbs of the two cities come into very close contact (some would say they overlap in mercer county), but that's very different from trying to claim that the cities themselves are close as you seem to think.

i've personally done the drive down the nj turnpike from nyc to philly (midtown/downtown manhattan to center city) dozens upon dozens of times, and you know what? the distance is nearly 95 miles, or slightly more than double the mileage that you quote.

and even your claim of 46 miles is bogus. this map shows that the distance from the southern tip of staten island (i.e. the southernmost section of nyc proper, albeit nearly 30 miles from midtown with a very suburban character) to the northeastern edge of the philly city limits is 60 miles. even if i adjust the route on google maps to try to emulate "statute miles" rather than "driving miles", it still comes out to about 55 miles.

not that the distance between the fringes of these cities really means anything. you'd have a much better argument if you focused on the suburban overlap in mercer county rather than trying to make the cities seem closer than they really are.

and another thing:
you claim to drive from center city to the lincoln tunnel in 65 minutes? seriously?
on what, the starship enterprise?

you'd have to be driving an average of 90 mph the entire way to do that. and it would have to be at like 3 in the morning, with few cars on the road.
is it feasible? technically, i guess so. but it's totally unrealistic given the amount of congestion on the nj turnpike at most hours of the day, not to mention all of the speed traps along that highway.

how many speeding tickets have you gotten on the nj turnpike over the years? or am i to believe you routinely go 90+ mph on the turnpike from CC to the lincoln tunnel with impunity?

i think this is another example of you stretching the truth to make it seem that the cities are closer than they really are.

btw, san jose and san francisco are about 48 miles apart from downtown to downtown, which is roughly half the distance between nyc and philly. there is no way you can possibly claim that the distance between nyc and philly is comparable.

sorry, you seem like a nice guy and all, but this particular argument of yours is just flat-out wrong and needed to be addressed.

/rant

btw, i agree with 18montclair that if the u.s. census bureau were to combine nyc and philly into one mega CSA, it would have to do the same for other regions in the nation. and i'm not sure i see that happening.
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Old 05-22-2010, 09:36 AM
 
2,419 posts, read 4,722,624 times
Reputation: 1318
There is no denying that the Philly, Jersey, NYC area is unlike any other region in the U.S.
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Old 05-22-2010, 10:01 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia,New Jersey, NYC!
6,963 posts, read 20,534,629 times
Reputation: 2737
Quote:
NY and Philly are more like SF and Sacramento.
SF to Sacramento 87 Miles
NYC to Philadelphia 93 Miles
Staten Island to the Ben Franklin Bridge is about 80 miles

all, i know is that it's never taken me more than 1.5 hrs w/o traffic. and i've done the drive 7,789 times

but pbergen is right, 46 miles is a stretch. it feels like 46 miles just to get from NYC to New Brunswick, NJ

Last edited by john_starks; 05-22-2010 at 10:21 AM..
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Old 05-22-2010, 10:16 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia,New Jersey, NYC!
6,963 posts, read 20,534,629 times
Reputation: 2737
Quote:
Originally Posted by killakoolaide View Post
There is no denying that the Philly, Jersey, NYC area is unlike any other region in the U.S.


YouTube - Joe Budden- New York, Jersey, Philly

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