What do you love/hate about Cleveland? (Dayton, Youngstown: upper-class, sales)

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector

The market is saturated. There is and has been too much vacancy.
Do you honestly believe that another building will be built simply for the sake of putting one up? Jacobs has a well publicized plan for part of the surface lot area. They won't break ground until they're sure they can fill the place.

The buildings that were torn down years ago (along with the recent parking garage demo) were razed because they were useless and in horrendous disrepair. I'd rather have a functioning parking lot that is full on the weekends than a dysfunctional set of abandoned, perpetually empty buildings.



Then don't point it out as a "success." It's mostly what we have at PS, only it's bigger. The stage/performing area would be fine... for the 3-4 times per year it would be used. In the meantime, it would be a great place to panhandle and shoot up.



You're still wrong. Most of the transit is along Superior.

Public square should remain as it is and be better policed/maintained. If anything, they could put up a few pedestrian bridges. There is simply no point in sinking 10's of millions into it unless they move the vast majority of the transit off of it. But, you're making it out to be way worse than it is. And, I can guarantee you that the current situation will change once the casino opens.



Only if you're a pantywaist. With the exception of the troublesome and now shuttered Club Allure, there has been virtually no crime in that area. Remember, just say no and keep walking. It happens in every city in the world. Why would you expect it to be any different here?



Big to decent moneyed folks are in Downtown constantly.

Although from having to repeat this again, you may be a product of Cleveland Public Schools...Pioneer Square stage, serpentine seating would be cool on PS; never touted Pioneer's success. Portland in general is full of dirty white druggies...

[Traveler87]

Ok everyone, leave out the personal issues. That's how threads turn dirty real quick.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by andrew61

I never thought I'd live to see the day when "Cleveland" and "tight rental market" were used in the same sentence.

I know, right? I do believe this version of Cleveland's renaissance has some legs to it. The DiMora-Russo gang is gone; maybe the locals in Cleveland will finally realize that this is really the city's do-or-die time.

[andys06]

I will say...

I stayed in Cleveland with a friend over Labor Day weekend, we just drove up there to checkout the local scene and I was VERY impressed. Some of the most friendly people I have ever met, to a lot of my surprise. I had always favored Columbus as my favorite city in the state, but after just 3 days in Cleveland that's changed a little. We even stayed an extra night!

[Cleveland_Collector]

Originally Posted by Kamms

Although from having to repeat this again, you may be a product of Cleveland Public Schools...Pioneer Square stage, serpentine seating would be cool on PS; never touted Pioneer's success. Portland in general is full of dirty white druggies...

That's your opinion. And yes, by default, you saying something is "cool" means you consider it a success. If it's a failure in "dirty white druggy" filled Portland, how would it be a success by building it here on a Public Square that you are currently afraid to walk through?

BTW, I have a Master's in Engineering. You?

[Cleveland_Collector]

Originally Posted by Kamms

I know, right? I do believe this version of Cleveland's renaissance has some legs to it. The DiMora-Russo gang is gone; maybe the locals in Cleveland will finally realize that this is really the city's do-or-die time.

People like you have been saying the same things for 40-50 years. Yet, Cleveland is still here. In all of your ranting, I have yet to see you even acknowledge the fact that severe industrial decline was the primary reason for Cleveland's socio-economic troubles. Cleveland has been going through an economic transformation for decades. These things do not happen overnight. If Cleveland has survived thus far through all of the loss, it seems rather silly that the term "do or die" would be used now during a prolonged upswing. If anything, "do or die" time was pre-Gateway. After that, it has always been sustain, focus on post-industrial development, and make capital improvements where possible. The ebb and flow since has been driven by the general global economic cycle -- just like everywhere else.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector

People like you have been saying the same things for 40-50 years. Yet, Cleveland is still here. In all of your ranting, I have yet to see you even acknowledge the fact that severe industrial decline was the primary reason for Cleveland's socio-economic troubles. Cleveland has been going through an economic transformation for decades. These things do not happen overnight. If Cleveland has survived thus far through all of the loss, it seems rather silly that the term "do or die" would be used now during a prolonged upswing. If anything, "do or die" time was pre-Gateway. After that, it has always been sustain, focus on post-industrial development, and make capital improvements where possible. The ebb and flow since has been driven by the general global economic cycle -- just like everywhere else.

"Rebuilding'' for 50+ years and still declining is not rebuilding and is definitely not an overnight amount of time.

If you think Cleveland has not been declining post-Gateway, you are making up history. More ebb in Cleveland than flow....pointing out Cleveland's past mistakes is not slamming the place but might want to be considered to for the future. Anyway, good luck with Public Square and all that and I hope the Casino provides the, (which number would this one be) next renaissance ''comeback city'' yada yada yada...much like Gateway was going to transform the city, how sad is it that everyone is pinning everything on a casino. But, with Gilbert's money, hopefully Tower City Center will finally be a success and he can get rid of the riff-raff once and for all...good luck ya'll.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by Kamms

"Rebuilding'' for 50+ years and still declining is not rebuilding and is definitely not an overnight amount of time.

If you think Cleveland has not been declining post-Gateway, you are making up history. More ebb in Cleveland than flow....pointing out Cleveland's past mistakes is not slamming the place but might want to be considered to for the future. Anyway, good luck with Public Square and all that and I hope the Casino provides the, (which number would this one be) next renaissance ''comeback city'' yada yada yada...much like Gateway was going to transform the city, how sad is it that everyone is pinning everything on a casino. But, with Gilbert's money, hopefully Tower City Center will finally be a success and he can get rid of the riff-raff once and for all...good luck ya'll.

I'm not going to disagree on the point that Cleveland has been through the renaissance talk before, with mixed results. However, I think what is happening in Cleveland now is something happening in most of the old Rust Belt or Great Lakes. A resurgance in manufacturing and the just-developing oil/gas boom will probably change the momentum of the state quite a bit, and Cleveland will no doubt see a lot of metro development because of these changes. I also think that a general low cost of living, existing infrastructure, and a change in how the nation builds because of the recession (less sprawl, more ubanity) will lead people back to Ohio and cities like Cleveland. I think the days of massive exodus to the Sun Belt are largely over, and given the Sun Belt's typically awful and expensive sprawl and shaky economies compared to those in the Great Lakes, I think we will see an evening out of where people are moving in the next decade or so. Quite a few factors are looking positive for Ohio in the coming years.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector

That's your opinion. And yes, by default, you saying something is "cool" means you consider it a success. If it's a failure in "dirty white druggy" filled Portland, how would it be a success by building it here on a Public Square that you are currently afraid to walk through?

BTW, I have a Master's in Engineering. You?

If someone says or states something is ''cool'' please do not construe it as always being a success. I mean the Arcade is really cool, but a failure; the Flats were so cool, but a failure; Tower City is cool, but a failure...get the drift?

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

I'm not going to disagree on the point that Cleveland has been through the renaissance talk before, with mixed results. However, I think what is happening in Cleveland now is something happening in most of the old Rust Belt or Great Lakes. A resurgance in manufacturing and the just-developing oil/gas boom will probably change the momentum of the state quite a bit, and Cleveland will no doubt see a lot of metro development because of these changes. I also think that a general low cost of living, existing infrastructure, and a change in how the nation builds because of the recession (less sprawl, more ubanity) will lead people back to Ohio and cities like Cleveland. I think the days of massive exodus to the Sun Belt are largely over, and given the Sun Belt's typically awful and expensive sprawl and shaky economies compared to those in the Great Lakes, I think we will see an evening out of where people are moving in the next decade or so. Quite a few factors are looking positive for Ohio in the coming years.

I would also like the Great Lakes states to have an economic and population resurgence. I recall, however, that you thought $400 million to relocate Sears was a good deal; two weeks later, major store closing announcements. Ohio should not attract and pay for dying corporations. The $400 million, no strings attached, high-speed rail donation to Ohio and the subsequent loss of that money and project do not bode well for Ohio. Kasich killed rail with the money give-away but was willing to put up $400 million for Sears? Something is wrong in the Buckeye State.