Cleveland's Loss of National Relevance (Columbus, Cincinnati: appointed, crime, neighborhood)

[maxmodder]

Originally Posted by Cali1976

And to the folks who keep mocking me for having visited Crocker park, where do you hang out? One of the three partly abandoned shops on west 25th in Ohio city? The same street that Ariel Castro lived on?

That and places like Coventry is where these types hang out when they are in Cleveland, as they reflect on past experiences of what it must have been like hanging in the flats when the flats were relevant. You sure as hell won't find them in a place like downtown Willoughby, a place where Lake County residents can have fun all year round without even having to set foot in Cleveland if they so chose not to. (This fact really pisses off some posters on here.) Heaven forbid if this fact perfectly counters the poor logic that it's not worth living in a suburb of Cleveland to be safer while possibly having to commute all while having a "Cleveland bar scene" experience without even having to go to Cleveland.

W. 25th is nothing but guido wannabes that think the cool thing do do is wear Affliction and MMA shirts. Pathetic.

Meanwhile you're living it up in places like Orange County and can surf and ski in the same day. I'm in Cali 6 times a year and trust me, your assessment of Cleveland is spot on, and I lived in Cleveland for 28 years.

[costello_musicman]

Originally Posted by Cali1976

My original post wasn't meant to imply that I'm measuring Cleveland's current importance by the quality of its chain stores. However, back in the 80s, this might be news to you, but suburban development and chain stores were considered a sign of progress. The presence of a Hard Rock Cafe in your city (cheesy as it sounds) meant your city was on the map (ironically, Cleveland didn't get one until the mid 90s...when that fad passed).

Also, all of your Cleveland boosters keep screaming about how much development is happening around university circle, downtown, tremont, etc. Have any of you been to a city experiencing a real development boom...even Baltimore? What's happening around the Inner Harbor probably blows Cleveland out of the water (and Baltimore is still losing people). How about any evidence that anything along the following dimensions have improved for Cleveland:

- population change of the metro area in the past 20 years? I think Cleveland is among the few to have lost people

- # of Fortune 500 companies based in Cleveland. This number has certainly fallen in the last twenty years

- foreign or domestic immigration to Cleveland in the last twenty years. Compared to the rest of the nation, this is probably negligible

- change in real estate prices in the last two years. The rest of the country is seeing growth, and parts are booming. Not sure where Cleveland fits on this measure

And to the folks who keep mocking me for having visited Crocker park, where do you hang out? One of the three partly abandoned shops on west 25th in Ohio city? The same street that Ariel Castro lived on?

Whoa. Ironcially yes, Ohio City is my favorite place to hang out in Cleveland...the place is completely booming right now. This area has improved so much in the past 5 years, it's almost impossible to find a available houysing. From this article, there is only one remaining empty storefront north or Lorain: http://www.sbnonline.com/component/k...861-sammcnulty

And Seymour Ave is on the other side of the freeway to what people would consider Ohio City.

Downtown Cleveland has more workers than it did pre-recession.

You raise valid points on immigration, overall real estate, and fortune 500 companies from twenty years ago...but the investment going on in Downtown, University Circle, Ohio City, Detroit-Shoreway is real. Downtown alone is seeing over $3.5 Billion, including over a dozen new apartment buildings. The largest residential boom is in Detroit-Shoreway in the from of Battery Park.

Probably a better way to describe it is that the good areas are getting stronger and the bad areas are getting worse. This most likely is a cause of the stagnant region population...which is still by far the largest CSA in the state.

[maxmodder]

Originally Posted by costello_musicman

Whoa. Ironcially yes, Ohio City is my favorite place to hang out in Cleveland...the place is completely booming right now. This area has improved so much in the past 5 years, it's almost impossible to find a available houysing. From this article, there is only one remaining empty storefront north or Lorain: http://www.sbnonline.com/component/k...861-sammcnulty

And Seymour Ave is on the other side of the freeway to what people would consider Ohio City.

Downtown Cleveland has more workers than it did pre-recession.

You raise valid points on immigration, overall real estate, and fortune 500 companies from twenty years ago...but the investment going on in Downtown, University Circle, Ohio City, Detroit-Shoreway is real. Downtown alone is seeing over $3.5 Billion, including over a dozen new apartment buildings. The largest residential boom is in Detroit-Shoreway in the from of Battery Park.

Probably a better way to describe it is that the good areas are getting stronger and the bad areas are getting worse. This most likely is a cause of the stagnant region population...which is still by far the largest CSA in the state.

The next time you are in Ohio city, please bring an extra button down shirt. I always carry an extra with me that I purchased from Crocker Park to give to one of the many affliction and MMA wearing guidos that like to hang out there. With a little effort on all ends, maybe we can turn that place around before the shops become abandoned yet again.

[Cleverfield]

Originally Posted by maxmodder

That and places like Coventry is where these types hang out when they are in Cleveland, as they reflect on past experiences of what it must have been like hanging in the flats when the flats were relevant. You sure as hell won't find them in a place like downtown Willoughby, a place where Lake County residents can have fun all year round without even having to set foot in Cleveland if they so chose not to. (This fact really pisses off some posters on here.) Heaven forbid if this fact perfectly counters the poor logic that it's not worth living in a suburb of Cleveland to be safer while possibly having to commute all while having a "Cleveland bar scene" experience without even having to go to Cleveland.

W. 25th is nothing but guido wannabes that think the cool thing do do is wear Affliction and MMA shirts. Pathetic.

Meanwhile you're living it up in places like Orange County and can surf and ski in the same day. I'm in Cali 6 times a year and trust me, your assessment of Cleveland is spot on, and I lived in Cleveland for 28 years.

By all means, stay in Willoughby. Everyone has "their place" that they like to hang out. Personally, I enjoy hanging out in cities. I like the big buildings, the bustling traffic, the diversity, the outstanding restaurants, things like carriage rides and bike taxis, food trucks. But I recognize that some people like vanilla better. That's fine, but don't hate on my chocolate with nuts.

[costello_musicman]

Originally Posted by maxmodder

The next time you are in Ohio city, please bring an extra button down shirt. I always carry an extra with me that I purchased from Crocker Park to give to one of the many affliction and MMA wearing guidos that like to hang out there. With a little effort on all ends, maybe we can turn that place around before the shops become abandoned yet again.

^Crop, Momocho, Flying Fig...even Westside Market and Great Lakes Brewery. You seriously don't go there?

Cleveland Museum of Art recently opened a cool new annex in Ohio City as well Pittsburgh, Youngstown, Akron, Cleveland Arts And Livable City Blog: The Cleveland Museum Extends it Reach with a New Annex in Ohio City

[maxmodder]

Originally Posted by Cleverfield

By all means, stay in Willoughby. Everyone has "their place" that they like to hang out. Personally, I enjoy hanging out in cities. I like the big buildings, the bustling traffic, the diversity, the outstanding restaurants, things like carriage rides and bike taxis, food trucks. But I recognize that some people like vanilla better. That's fine, but don't hate on my chocolate with nuts.

Personally I enjoy the better school systems and safe communities of the suburbs. I hardly "stay" in Willoughby as my work takes me all over the country and I live 4 hours from Lake County these days, but have many friends in that area that I still visit. My point was that it is entirely possible to get a Cleveland bar scene experience while living in Lake County or another suburb without having to physically commute to Cleveland. If you want to add some syrup and sprinkles to that chocolate with nuts, a trip to Cbus is needed.

[maxmodder]

Originally Posted by costello_musicman

^Crop, Momocho, Flying Fig...even Westside Market and Great Lakes Brewery. You seriously don't go there?

Cleveland Museum of Art recently opened a cool new annex in Ohio City as well Pittsburgh, Youngstown, Akron, Cleveland Arts And Livable City Blog: The Cleveland Museum Extends it Reach with a New Annex in Ohio City

Been to westside market many times (doesn't hold a candle to Jungle Jim's which I currently frequent however) and my fridge filled with Christmas ale is true testament to my Great Lakes Brewing Co support. I was referring to the bar scene.

[Cleveland_Collector]

Max- Then I guess I'm just a wannabe guido... not. And, Jungle Jim's... please. That place is like a Super Wal-Mart with a humidor, liquor store, and a decent cheese selection. It didn't take me long to realize that literally anything in the place is generally overpriced and could be easily found within a 10 mile radius of my house. It's also in the middle of nowhere (i.e., not even close to the city proper). The WSM is an integral part of the city fabric with rail service literally steps away. Is JJ even in Hamilton County?

[Cleveland_Collector]

Originally Posted by Cali1976

I grew up in Cleveland Heights. I'm very familiar with what's happening around University Circle, and the improvements going on along Euclid Ave are impressive. However, that pales into comparison with the loss of population and overall stagnation setting in across much of Cuyahoga County.

Welcome to 1982. Thanks for the 30+ year old news, bud. It's called the transition of a major, post-industrial city. It doesn't happen overnight. If your lazy, affected west coast posterior would/could stop living up to its stereotype, I'd suggest doing a little research on the subject. You may have gotten a little too much zinc oxide on the brain to know this, but the phenomenon stretches all the way from about Minneapolis to the east coast and the dozen or so major cities affected by it have all dealt with it with varying degrees of success. The two cities that have probably done the best with the transition are Cleveland and Pittsburgh. The ones that have had the most struggles are likely Detroit and Baltimore. It's really interesting subject matter, if you can ascertain a modicum of rational thought.

[ZnGuy]

Originally Posted by maxmodder

After the failure of so many malls, people finally realized that if you make a more upscale mall which charges more and has more upscale stores, it won't attract the types that cause malls to turn into a Randall Park or Euclid Square. Would I give value to a statement made by someone who "hangs out" at Crocker Park mall? No, (nor anyone else that "hangs out" in a mall) but I would give value to a statement made by an actual CONSUMER going to Crocker Park. Why? Because they more than likely have more sense than a "hang out" type that has been saying the same damn saying since the 1980's which is "Cleveland is coming around.". It's been over 3 decades and the same thing is still being said, and will continue to be said. Denial is a wonderful coping mechanism. Having a casino is another.


http://www.clevelandfed.org/research...13/2013-06.cfm

interesting article and stats. First time I have seen the term 'reverse gentrification'. Thanks for sharing.