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If you're mathematically literate, you'll know the answer.
Or if you live on Cleveland's east side or Chicago's south side, where a large majority of these crimes are committed. Then you'll know that neither is preferable.
How is Chicago compared to Cleveland compared by square miles? Not sure, just curious. That could influence it. And I would agree that while there are definitely exceptions for both, the east side/south sides should mostly be avoided.
All murders are bad, no matter the size of population or what side of town it's on. Crime affects everyone no matter which part of the city it's happening in. A life is lost, a life is gone too soon, parents have to make funeral arrangements to put their loved ones to rest. If we wanna talk about crime intelligently, that's fine but don't do it at the expensive of "Which is worse: 8 murders in a population of 390,000... or 40 murders in a population of 2.7 million? If you're mathematically literate, you'll know the answer" or "According to HeyJackass which monitors Chicago's crime stats, there have been 40 homicides as of today. According to 19 action news, Cleveland has had 8 murders as of two days ago." @andrew61 it's funny that you talk about all of the reasons you got out of Cleveland and went to a more "real city" like Chicago, but most of the time you're on the Cleveland board. That's why some people from Cleveland don't like some people from Chicago because some Chicagoians have to be snooty, stuck up and arrogant and have to have a huge superiority complex as if God shines down on Chicago and looks down on everybody else. Nothing against having civic pride, but you don't use it to put people from other cities down to make yourself feel better or superior about the city you live in. Plus, Andrew, you get defensive about Chicago as some folks on here do about Cleveland. Everyone should take off their rose-colored glasses and look at the pros and cons of their city. Just because your city gets so much media hype, doesn't mean it's picture perfect. I enjoy visiting Chicago but I wouldn't wanna live there. Both cities have problems with crime, so let's talk about the issues that's plaguing both cities and go from there to a solution where crime in both cities can calm down.
Last edited by QCongress83216; 02-14-2015 at 09:58 PM..
The main reason why locals hate Cleveland because it's been imbedded into our subconscious by our families, friends, the local and national media. A lot of the local media focuses too much on the negative (i.e. crime). I mean, you can report the negative but they should balance it more with the positive. It's like the girl or even the boy who's been told all their life they're ugly, and when somebody tells them that they're cute or beautiful, they don't want to believe because they've been told so many time that they're ugly their whole lives. On the flip side, the national media still thinks Cleveland is stuck in 1969 when the river caught fire (thanks Randy Newman for "Burn On" like we really needed that) and in a lot of people's minds it's still The Rust Belt (thanks a lot Walter Mondale), even though Cleveland is going through a transformation. Most of them, they never been here and only go by what they've heard (i.e. the national media or stand-up comedians); that's why you explore things for yourself and not listen to what somebody tells you. I wouldn't want live in a city that has the mentality, "My city's the center of the universe because they said it" or "My city is so crappy because they said it." Most of the cities that get so much media hype are by people from major cities that are only biased for the cities, coasts or regions. It's not all that it's cracked up to be, in my opinion. In their minds they think they already have their minds made about the city because of what they read, heard or what they see on TV and movies. In an article for Crain's Cleveland, the article states that most people's assumptions of cities are psychosocial, if not stereotypical. A scientist also said that people based their views of things on something called "meofacts", which means they don't change quickly or slowly, and that when we're young we hold on to them despite the fact the facts may not be the same after a while.
The locals get down on the weather as if we're the only cold, snowy city in America, it's cold and snowy on the cities that get so much attention (i.e. NY, Chicago, Boston, Philly, D.C.). Plus, most people in Cleveland have lived here most, if not, all their lives and haven't lived anywhere else. Also, the sports teams play factor, too, due to not winning a title since '64, all the losing and LeBron leaving the first go-around. Now, I'm a big Cleveland sports fan as anybody, but I don't think that it should have an impact on our daily lives or affecting our moods because there are people who are going through worst. If you're living good and the only problem is your team didn't win, you have a damn good life. Nationally, the media thinks if your team wins a title, it looks good in that city because they think if the team(s) are doing great then the city must be doing great. But, little do they know there are some parts of that city or the city itself that's struggling. With LeBron coming back to Cleveland, everyone nationally was against it (i.e. leaving a team that he went to 4 straight NBA Finals and winning 2 of them, choosing to leave a NBA legend in Pat Riley and a coach in Erik Spolstria to play for an unproven coach or GM, Dan Gilbert's letter). Plus, the FEW fans that burned his jersey when he left painted an image nationally that was everyone in Cleveland. But, the main thing is LeBron did something unprecedented which the media scoffed at and (directly and indirectly) shockingly asked, "Who moves from Miami to Ohio?" In a lot of people minds, they take it as if LeBron took a step backwards because he came back to a "Rust Belt" city that isn't as glamorous as Miami, although it's home for LeBron. And, that happened on the same week when the news broke of Cleveland getting the 2016 Republican National Convention. There were lots of snarky comments from the DC media about Cleveland getting the nod for the convention.
Clevelanders need to have more swag, what I mean is a little bit more civic pride. It seems that most of us are so ashamed to say we're from Cleveland because it's been ingrained in us by people when we're young. Arsenio Hall said it best when he was promoting his 2nd talk show at the time that people from Cleveland when they leave, they don't have any pride about their city, and that's why he put the Dawg Pound out there on his original show. We shouldn't have to apologize for being from Cleveland, my mom (God rest her soul) taught us never apologize for who you are. Or, people from other cities apologizing to us being from Cleveland as if we're some poor soul who doesn't know any better. We have to be tourist in our own city instead of being so introverted. Plus, we have to stop this city vs. suburb there some people in suburbia that have this elitist attitude that they won't come to the city because it's not their cushy suburb; just like there's more to life than the inner city, it works the same in the suburbs. Because a lot of these suburbs are a part of Cleveland, like it or not, it's not it's own city. I'm not saying that you look at everything with rose-colored glasses. We should address the issues that the city still has, so we can make it even more better for ourselves, our neighborhoods, our businesses, families and friends. Some people in this city that we should copycat other cities for Cleveland, that's the worst thing you can do because it's like we're committing identity theft by stealing ideas from another city and not coming up with any of our own. Cleveland has to be Cleveland, we can't be any other city. Miami is always compared to L.A., Chicago is always compared to NYC, but Cleveland doesn't get compared to any other city and that's what I like the most.
Location: Bmore, The cursed land of -> Hotlanta -> Charlotte
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Cause its so old fashioned and traditional, atleast thats what me and my friends thought when we were there. I was born here, spent my first 6 or so years here, then came back for my teenage years, 12-17. I wont lie, I hated it. And so did my friends. Everyone thinks so old in Cleveland. People do the same stuff, watch the same Browns try to go past 5-11(at that time) year after year, same ole Indians, but hey atleast we had Lebron, then even he left and it got really bad. Plus the fact that during that time the economy absolutely sucked, and everyone was moving out. And I mean everyone. CLE made the worst cities list like three years in a row in the late 2000s, and people always reminded me of that.
But the main thing, like the guy above me said, is because the national image. Nothing urked me more as a teen, then telling people I gamed with and made friends with on the internet I was in Cleveland, and theyd go lolclevelandsux, so I always just said Ohio. Till this day I still dont like to say Cleveland, but it is my original town, and tbh I have more pride as a native Ohioan than a Clevelander, I wouldnt be one anyways, I spent all my years in my bedroom, homeschooled, playing video games all day isolated when I was in Cleveland, and why couldnt I go to public school? We literally had kids bringing guns to school every week, I didnt fit in AT ALL at those schools and my Mom refused to send me even after I became so lonely from having no friends, I was depressed for two years, cause the only other people in my area were thugs or people walking in 'gangs' thinking they go hard.
Thats another thing, the schools and people were terrible. I only had 4 friends I got along with(on my street, and they were all younger than me, so I didnt even hang out with other high schoolers) the whole time in Cleveland, everyone wanted to be hip and badass up there. Me being a Black Sheep just cause I dont listen to Gucci Mane, little wayne and Drake. Wanted to go 'tap some thots' and screw around. And most of all about Cleveland, is the west side. Its terrible being on the west side as a black person(my grama lives there). When I went into Giant Eagle in Rocky River at night, people satred at me like I was a ghost everytime. And even had to say a few times "dont worry, I wont steal anything" then they give me this fake smile, taht same damn fake smile, like most people on the west side do, like it was all a-okay. Seriously, Id rather have them call me a Negro to m face than act fake like that. Eyeing me when I walk behind them like im about to shank them over in Parma etc, I hated, hated, hated being Black in Cleveland. And youre stereotped like heck. And actually speaking of Parma, I was just visiting the family 5 months ago, we walked in a bowling alley wo bowl, and EVERYONE stared at us when we walked in, like we were Unicorns or something, in 2014, ridiculous.
My family has terrible history with racial conflict in Cleveland, such as my Uncle, back in the 80s getting his clothes burned by school kids cause him and my aunts were the only black kids in the school (My grama was a very successful nurse at the time and was one of the few blacks nurse in Beachwood I guess, she made hella money and had this infeiorit complex, so she decided to put her kids in a good 'white' school, my granfather hated having them there, cause he knew how the kids were) , they said it was at a school called "Jayzoo", then my Aunt especially hated it cause she said the kids would call her a Oreo cause she was black and tried to 'act white; by speaking properly, she eventually dropped out and did homeschool, and my Mom also ran away, and bam, she got pregnant and I was born, great family history huh? Pshh...
I take no pride or good memories from being from a place with such terrible history. And that goes for the Blacks too. May Day, back in the 90s beating up white kids for no reason. You think I wanna be known as being from a place where Black people at like coons? I hated it. And I especially ahted how when I told people on the internet I was from CLE, they automatically assumed I was Black. It really was the Mistake on the Lake to me. Now, its nostalgic, and by that, all I miss are my 4 friends I had, and the snow, we dont get snow here in Atlanta. And of course being born a Buckeye. I have tons of Ohioan pride. Like us having the most astronauts into space, our football team of course, football being born there, and the athletes that hail from Ohio that everyone in the nation wants in college football.
But Cleveland pride...? Not so much. Ill always have a little love for CLE, but only cause my family is there and I have memories of few friends I did have. I did become a man there too. If my family wasnt still in CLE, after all the turmoil we went through living there, I wouldnt mind at all washing my hands of it. And even all my old friends are leaving CLE now..
Though my Grandfather told me just 5 months ago, he wants to live and die in Ohio, he loves his Browns more than anything, even when they go 5-11 he sits and watches the games over and over ad goes over what they did wrong. I can Cleveland is home to some serious sports fans. Grampa has been a Browns fan since the 60s/70s.
Annnd thats all for my emotional recap of my dreaded years in Cleveland.
THIS is why, as an ex-Clevelander, I hated this city. (years 2006-2011(dont remember my childhood years really, I spent my meaningful ones here in Atlanta )
I used to always ask my family... "Why not Columbus?"
And of course, as Clevelanders their reply "too expensive".
And please no one argue with me, these were some of the worst years of my life, you can argue me to we're blue in the face, and even tell me about things I shouldve done differently, but its been done now, and I lived through it, and hated it. As a teen who lived with his Uncle it wasnt much I could do about my situation, and I know, those years were my failure years, how crappy my years went in Cleveland still haunt me today. I really was a typical Negro in Cleveland, but it was because of my upbringing, and the funny thing is my Mom is stil trying to dig us out of a hole, I still feel like a product of Cleveland right now, thats for sure, not having a job or a place, not a dolalr to my name and lonely... but atleast I can say I actually have love for the city Im in now. And if I didnt experience those terrible years in Cleveland, I wouldnt have the poise and determination to better myself today.
Cause its so old fashioned and traditional, atleast thats what me and my friends thought when we were there. I was born here, spent my first 6 or so years here, then came back for my teenage years, 12-17. I wont lie, I hated it. And so did my friends. Everyone thinks so old in Cleveland. People do the same stuff, watch the same Browns try to go past 5-11(at that time) year after year, same ole Indians, but hey atleast we had Lebron, then even he left and it got really bad. Plus the fact that during that time the economy absolutely sucked, and everyone was moving out. And I mean everyone. CLE made the worst cities list like three years in a row in the late 2000s, and people always reminded me of that.
But the main thing, like the guy above me said, is because the national image. Nothing urked me more as a teen, then telling people I gamed with and made friends with on the internet I was in Cleveland, and theyd go lolclevelandsux, so I always just said Ohio. Till this day I still dont like to say Cleveland, but it is my original town, and tbh I have more pride as a native Ohioan than a Clevelander, I wouldnt be one anyways, I spent all my years in my bedroom, homeschooled, playing video games all day isolated when I was in Cleveland, and why couldnt I go to public school? We literally had kids bringing guns to school every week, I didnt fit in AT ALL at those schools and my Mom refused to send me even after I became so lonely from having no friends, I was depressed for two years, cause the only other people in my area were thugs or people walking in 'gangs' thinking they go hard.
Thats another thing, the schools and people were terrible. I only had 4 friends I got along with(on my street, and they were all younger than me, so I didnt even hang out with other high schoolers) the whole time in Cleveland, everyone wanted to be hip and badass up there. Me being a Black Sheep just cause I dont listen to Gucci Mane, little wayne and Drake. Wanted to go 'tap some thots' and screw around. And most of all about Cleveland, is the west side. Its terrible being on the west side as a black person(my grama lives there). When I went into Giant Eagle in Rocky River at night, people satred at me like I was a ghost everytime. And even had to say a few times "dont worry, I wont steal anything" then they give me this fake smile, taht same damn fake smile, like most people on the west side do, like it was all a-okay. Seriously, Id rather have them call me a Negro to m face than act fake like that. Eyeing me when I walk behind them like im about to shank them over in Parma etc, I hated, hated, hated being Black in Cleveland. And youre stereotped like heck. And actually speaking of Parma, I was just visiting the family 5 months ago, we walked in a bowling alley wo bowl, and EVERYONE stared at us when we walked in, like we were Unicorns or something, in 2014, ridiculous.
My family has terrible history with racial conflict in Cleveland, such as my Uncle, back in the 80s getting his clothes burned by school kids cause him and my aunts were the only black kids in the school (My grama was a very successful nurse at the time and was one of the few blacks nurse in Beachwood I guess, she made hella money and had this infeiorit complex, so she decided to put her kids in a good 'white' school, my granfather hated having them there, cause he knew how the kids were) , they said it was at a school called "Jayzoo", then my Aunt especially hated it cause she said the kids would call her a Oreo cause she was black and tried to 'act white; by speaking properly, she eventually dropped out and did homeschool, and my Mom also ran away, and bam, she got pregnant and I was born, great family history huh? Pshh...
I take no pride or good memories from being from a place with such terrible history. And that goes for the Blacks too. May Day, back in the 90s beating up white kids for no reason. You think I wanna be known as being from a place where Black people at like coons? I hated it. And I especially ahted how when I told people on the internet I was from CLE, they automatically assumed I was Black. It really was the Mistake on the Lake to me. Now, its nostalgic, and by that, all I miss are my 4 friends I had, and the snow, we dont get snow here in Atlanta. And of course being born a Buckeye. I have tons of Ohioan pride. Like us having the most astronauts into space, our football team of course, football being born there, and the athletes that hail from Ohio that everyone in the nation wants in college football.
But Cleveland pride...? Not so much. Ill always have a little love for CLE, but only cause my family is there and I have memories of few friends I did have. I did become a man there too. If my family wasnt still in CLE, after all the turmoil we went through living there, I wouldnt mind at all washing my hands of it. And even all my old friends are leaving CLE now..
Though my Grandfather told me just 5 months ago, he wants to live and die in Ohio, he loves his Browns more than anything, even when they go 5-11 he sits and watches the games over and over ad goes over what they did wrong. I can Cleveland is home to some serious sports fans. Grampa has been a Browns fan since the 60s/70s.
Annnd thats all for my emotional recap of my dreaded years in Cleveland.
THIS is why, as an ex-Clevelander, I hated this city. (years 2006-2011(dont remember my childhood years really, I spent my meaningful ones here in Atlanta )
I used to always ask my family... "Why not Columbus?"
And of course, as Clevelanders their reply "too expensive".
And please no one argue with me, these were some of the worst years of my life, you can argue me to we're blue in the face, and even tell me about things I shouldve done differently, but its been done now, and I lived through it, and hated it. As a teen who lived with his Uncle it wasnt much I could do about my situation, and I know, those years were my failure years, how crappy my years went in Cleveland still haunt me today. I really was a typical Negro in Cleveland, but it was because of my upbringing, and the funny thing is my Mom is stil trying to dig us out of a hole, I still feel like a product of Cleveland right now, thats for sure, not having a job or a place, not a dolalr to my name and lonely... but atleast I can say I actually have love for the city Im in now. And if I didnt experience those terrible years in Cleveland, I wouldnt have the poise and determination to better myself today.
I think it's typical of people who have spent most (or all) of their lives in one place to see it objectively. Especially if that place has been the butt of jokes. Cleveland Mitchell, what your top 3-5 favorite things about CLE so far?
I have lived in Chicago (hometown), NYC, Minneapolis, Atlanta, Nashville, San Diego and Northern VA, all between the ages of 25 and 48.
The only place I moved to that was truly MY decision (and by myself) was Atlanta, and I loved it for that. Unfortunately, I didn't understand the importance of that at the time. I have finally realized that being in a place that meets MY needs, values and priorities - not someone else's, or because it's on a Kiplinger's list - is critical to my happiness. I know, this is a truly brilliant epiphany ;-) haha
I've been looking at cities like Tucson in the West, and Cleveland, Lexington KY and, yes, even Detroit. I'm 50 years old, starting over, and I know that at my age I don't want to spend the rest of my making ridiculous mortgage payments. I want a decent quality of life, even if it means dealing with weather again, I like good food, older homes, friendly people, and convenience. A low mortgage payment will allow me to do more things - like travel.
I also like character and grit. I was in La Paz, Bolivia at this time last year and I was always surprised when visitors complained about the urban decay, because I saw so much beauty and possibility in crumbling structures. I'm also an ardent champion of the underdog, which is probably why Cleveland and Detroit are appealing. The idea of contributing to a city's renaissance appeals to me.
Living in San Diego comes with such a hefty price tag, and most of my friends here are happy to sacrifice because they can't imagine living anywhere else. One of my dearest friends is 58, has NO savings of any kind, and will not leave San Diego because it's "paradise." My idea of paradise is being economically stable and having options.
As much as I love San Diego, as a city girl, I find it to be a bit bland and vanilla at times. I miss seasons. It was 86 degrees here on Friday and I was disappointed. Once you get east of the beaches, it's a lot like everywhere else, but with better weather.
I've lived in quite a few cities during my 62 years. I was born and raised in Philadelphia, and since then lived in Cleveland, Kansas City, Columbus, Washington DC, South New Jersey and Sacramento. In addition, I've spent a lot of time (meaning at least a few months) in places such as Chicago, Boston, Providence, NYC, West Palm Beach, and Yuma. By far, my favorite location was...Cleveland.
The city being on the lake is a major plus to me. In addition the museums and libraries are incredible. The residential areas are very varied, and the quality of life at the home or rent prices is just top notch. The tree canopy over much of the metro area is as nice as anyplace in the country. It is a convenient city to get around, and traffic generally isn't too bad considering the size of the metro area. Weather can be a bit challenging and wearing in the winter, but days popping into the 40's or even the 50's aren't that rare. Summer weather is downright great too. Very green area, definitely my favorite.
Location: Cleveland, OH USA / formerly Chicago for 20 years
4,069 posts, read 7,315,809 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QCongress83216
@andrew61 ... Nothing against having civic pride, but you don't use it to put people from other cities down to make yourself feel better or superior about the city you live in.
Ah, but don't some Clevelanders on this board do exactly that when they start yapping about Chicago's murder rate?
All I do in response is point out that when you do the math properly, Cleveland's murder rate turns out to be just as bad -- indeed, somewhat worse.
I will continue to correct misinformation when I come across it. If that puts people's noses out of joint, well, I don't know what to say.
Thank you for sharing.
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