Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Couldn't agree more. And which party has been in control and presided over it? The City of Chicago has had one party rule for 89 years. Michael Madigan has ruled Illinois for nearly 40 (except for 1-2 years in the 80s) and is more powerful than the governor.
Hundreds of pols have been sent to the slammer for corruption in that time. They have spent like drunken sailors, taken bribes and funneled untold billions to waste and the only "fix" is always tax increases. They serve the labor unions and stick it to the taxpayers (chumbalones).
Now you can begin to understand why I have my views on gov't and taxes.
Fact is, Shaker's smaller older houses in the southern areas of the city, such as those along Scottsdale and Lomond blvds, are well designed with quality craftsmanship and, generally, are well maintained per Shaker's strict housing code. And yes, the upscale areas are on par with Chicago's elite North Shore suburbs like Highland Park and Lake Forest, whether you care to believe it or not.
Quality craftsmanship including bowing basement walls from cinder block foundations instead of poured concrete, knob and tube wiring (as late as 1962), lead paint, asbestos, functionally obsolete.
The fact that you have to have a housing code speaks volumes of the propensity of residents to actually maintain their properties. Laws to keep your property up exist on the books in Chicagoland just to cover that base, but they are not needed to be enforced through rackets such as POS and regular inspections requiring escrowing funds to the gov't. That is just absolutely insane.
In the Chicago suburbs an area like Shaker Heights would have investment by homeowners that desire the area so much that these types of homes are torn down for custom new builds. Pick a suburb and you'll see it. Western Springs is perhaps the most prime example. I really don't see infill in Shaker, or anywhere at scale in the Cleveland suburbs aside from parts of Beachwood you are beginning to see it.
There are a few streets with large mansions in Shaker that are similar to the North Shore. The rest of the east side (Pepper, Orange, Moreland, Lyndhurst, etc) seems to be a sea of 1960s/70s homes with all the problems.
Quality craftsmanship including bowing basement walls from cinder block foundations instead of poured concrete, knob and tube wiring (as late as 1962), lead paint, asbestos, functionally obsolete.
The fact that you have to have a housing code speaks volumes of the propensity of residents to actually maintain their properties. Laws to keep your property up exist on the books in Chicagoland just to cover that base, but they are not needed to be enforced through rackets such as POS and regular inspections requiring escrowing funds to the gov't. That is just absolutely insane.
In the Chicago suburbs an area like Shaker Heights would have investment by homeowners that desire the area so much that these types of homes are torn down for custom new builds. Pick a suburb and you'll see it. Western Springs is perhaps the most prime example. I really don't see infill in Shaker, or anywhere at scale in the Cleveland suburbs aside from parts of Beachwood you are beginning to see it.
There are a few streets with large mansions in Shaker that are similar to the North Shore. The rest of the east side (Pepper, Orange, Moreland, Lyndhurst, etc) seems to be a sea of 1960s/70s homes with all the problems.
We should get back on topic for the OP
Ah, 'scuse me, "the rest of the East Side," also includes such places as Gates Mills, Hunting Valley, Solon, Beachwood, Cleveland Hts (esp mansion row in/around Fairmount Blvd), and other posh areas I haven't even named. Btw, if you think Moreland Hills is just a "... sea of 1960s/70s homes", you obviously are looking at a different Moreland Hills then I'm familiar with, which includes posh, old-school mansions set so far off the street you can't see them, along with others on farms. So let's not conveniently narrow the scope in order to justify your argument.
And what are "... all the problems?" Something you made up? Are you a housing inspector for suburban Cleveland? You'd have to be with such, er, extensive insight.
Quality craftsmanship including bowing basement walls from cinder block foundations instead of poured concrete, knob and tube wiring (as late as 1962), lead paint, asbestos, functionally obsolete.
The fact that you have to have a housing code speaks volumes of the propensity of residents to actually maintain their properties. Laws to keep your property up exist on the books in Chicagoland just to cover that base, but they are not needed to be enforced through rackets such as POS and regular inspections requiring escrowing funds to the gov't. That is just absolutely insane.
In the Chicago suburbs an area like Shaker Heights would have investment by homeowners that desire the area so much that these types of homes are torn down for custom new builds. Pick a suburb and you'll see it. Western Springs is perhaps the most prime example. I really don't see infill in Shaker, or anywhere at scale in the Cleveland suburbs aside from parts of Beachwood you are beginning to see it.
There are a few streets with large mansions in Shaker that are similar to the North Shore. The rest of the east side (Pepper, Orange, Moreland, Lyndhurst, etc) seems to be a sea of 1960s/70s homes with all the problems.
We should get back on topic for the OP
The gentleman from South Carolina paid over $400,000 for a newly-refurbished, mid-century, home in Shaker Heights that is currently valued at $225,000. He thus capitalized on a full renovation that has not yet been accounted for by the county fiscal office since we are between the 2018 and 2021 appraisal cycles. Yet, despite the advantage of an annual property tax bill of less than $10,000, he continues to vent about the community, its housing stock, its code compliance procedures and municipal development policy. I have always maintained that every location choice is a value-added proposition and Shaker Heights is no exception. There are certainly many quality communities other than Shaker Heights where $400,000+ will net a buyer a comfortable house. Could proximity to the University Circle medical institutions really be the only reason for a Shaker relocation when the buyer relentlessly expresses a multitude of reasons why he loathes the community in which he now lives? Or, is it possible that his spouse, for whom his family made this move, actually loves Shaker Heights and now his only comfort is bitter resignation to begrudgingly resent his new home? Questions such as these remind me how much I love my career as a social scientist.
The gentleman from South Carolina paid over $400,000 for a newly-refurbished, mid-century, home in Shaker Heights that is currently valued at $225,000. He thus capitalized on a full renovation that has not yet been accounted for by the county fiscal office since we are between the 2018 and 2021 appraisal cycles. Yet, despite the advantage of an annual property tax bill of less than $10,000, he continues to vent about the community, its housing stock, its code compliance procedures and municipal development policy. I have always maintained that every location choice is a value-added proposition and Shaker Heights is no exception. There are certainly many quality communities other than Shaker Heights where $400,000+ will net a buyer a comfortable house. Could proximity to the University Circle medical institutions really be the only reason for a Shaker relocation when the buyer relentlessly expresses a multitude of reasons why he loathes the community in which he now lives? Or, is it possible that his spouse, for whom his family made this move, actually loves Shaker Heights and now his only comfort is bitter resignation to begrudgingly resent his new home? Questions such as these remind me how much I love my career as a social scientist.
I always thought, and from memory, that real property tax valuations in Ohio were adjusted immediately to reflect real estate transactions. As Ohio's real estate taxes are assessed in arrears, a transaction in 2020 would be reflected in the 2020 real estate tax bill due in 2021. Am I wrong? Surprisingly, I couldn't find an answer with an internet search.
Quality craftsmanship including bowing basement walls from cinder block foundations instead of poured concrete, knob and tube wiring (as late as 1962), lead paint, asbestos, functionally obsolete.
None of the pre-WWII homes that I've seen in Shaker Heights used cinder block walls. They all were masonry brick walls. Pre-WWII poured concrete walls also have many problems, and perhaps an even shorter life than masonry brick walls. In the days before plastic membranes, foundations were not well water-proofed nor well engineered by modern standards (tile drainage, sump pumps, etc.) Water can seep into the poured concrete walls, cause rust in rebars, which then expand damaging the walls.
Modern poured concrete walls only have become popular in the last 25 years, and they likely will be replaced in the future by pre-fabricated concrete walls, where quality control and consistency are much easier to manage. The first time that I saw a poured concrete wall was in the 1990s, and it was a tricky operation that caused much consternation for a friend building a large house using a poured concrete foundation.
A major reason for the adoption of poured concrete walls was to save the labor required to lay bricks, cinder blocks, etc. Admittedly, a properly engineered, installed MODERN poured concrete wall does offer advantages over laid foundations.
As in Chicago, the vast majority of homes in Shaker Heights have had their electrical systems modernized. If you believe that lead paint and asbestos weren't problems in pre-WWII Chicago homes, you're deluding yourself.
You are guilty of presentism, and applying it ridiculously selectively to Shaker Heights. I've seen beautiful century-old homes in SH with brick masonry basement foundation walls, wood paneling, fire places, and marble floors. The quality of these century old foundations was obvious due to the lack of bulging and absence of settling issues in the houses (it wouldn't surprise me if issues did exist among some other older SH homes). I knew one purchaser of a pre-WWII SH home who waterproofed his basement to avoid any issues or potential damage to the basement wood paneling.
Wood work is exquisite in many SH homes. And many old SH homes have been otherwise modernized.
And tear-downs and rebuilds do take place in SH and Cleveland Heights, sometimes to the consternation of preservationists.
<<The low sales price of $260,000 for the 9,000-square foot home recognized that demographic reality.>>
As laws and regulations change in the decades ahead to limit urban sprawl and preserve badly needed agricultural land, "scraping" likely will become much more prevalent in CH and SH, just as it now along the Lake Erie coast in Greater Cleveland.
In my experience dealing with your posts (e.g., Sanibel Island and even in this thread regarding Illinois deficits), you often make statements and claims that are entirely inaccurate, even ridiculous IMO. Your comparisons of Chicago suburb housing with that in Shaker Heights are likely entirely gratuitous IMO, for reasons already explained. Sorry, but your posts too often are deficient in credibility for me.
Couldn't agree more. And which party has been in control and presided over it? The City of Chicago has had one party rule for 89 years. Michael Madigan has ruled Illinois for nearly 40 (except for 1-2 years in the 80s) and is more powerful than the governor.
Hundreds of pols have been sent to the slammer for corruption in that time. They have spent like drunken sailors, taken bribes and funneled untold billions to waste and the only "fix" is always tax increases. They serve the labor unions and stick it to the taxpayers (chumbalones).
Now you can begin to understand why I have my views on gov't and taxes.
So your would have us believe a discredited, conservative, Rush Limbaugh-loving columnist, over historical reality regarding the Illinois and Chicago budget issues? There is no doubt that Chicago is a fiscal mess, and Chicago Democrats are ultimately responsible. Chicago's problems are not entirely of its own making, and, in any case, have little bearing on Greater Cleveland and Ohio. If you look at 21st century federal fiscal deficits, clearly the Republicans have been much more irresponsible than the Democrats, and these federal deficits greatly impact state and local governments.
Your argument that Illinois Republicans have no responsibility for the fiscal messes in Illinois and Chicago ring hollow to me. Republican Gov. Jim Edgar generally is credited with unleashing the Illinois/Chicago pension crisis. Are you seriously arguing that no Illinois Republicans have been corrupt?
As with northeast Ohio especially in its days of industrial prosperity, and even today given grossly unfair Republican Ohio legislation that greatly disadvantages urban and northern Ohio (Ohio Turnpike leveraging and toll-raising to subsidize highway budgets elsewhere in Ohio; disparate allocations of local government funds to wealthy and rural townships versus cities and urban counties; diversion of gasoline taxes and vehicle registration fees from urban areas to rural areas, all while slashing mass transit subsidies), northern Illinois likely has subsidized rural, Republican Illinois for a century.
Chicago and Illinois politics are not an issue in this forum, except that you intend to impugn northeast Ohio by attributing Illinois policy failures to Ohio. Do you even know that northeast Ohio local governments have NO local pension plans but participate only in Ohio's state plans, which are much better funded than those in Illinois due to continuous reform measures and NO cutbacks in annual funding to balance state budgets?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
