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try getting into one of the better universities in this country. If they're so expensive and overrated why do they turn away 90% or more of the applicants? Even the better state universities only accept maybe 30% of the applicants.
There are plenty of good programs in good fields if you take the time to research them and are qualified for admittance. If you don't do that, or can't get in, maybe you need to work harder and quit whining.
Sometimes it isn't about how hard someone works to be admitted into a program. Sometimes it's just a matter of not having enough room/slots to fill all the students that are qualified and that the school is eager to have as a student.
Sometimes it isn't about how hard someone works to be admitted into a program. Sometimes it's just a matter of not having enough room/slots to fill all the students that are qualified and that the school is eager to have as a student.
I have to agree with you there but don't see how that advances the original poster's theory that college is overrated and overpriced (well, maybe the latter part is true), but admission to the better schools is incredibly competitive. I dunno where some people got the idea college is for everyone.
No, that is what vocational schools and tech schools are for. 4 year schools are out there to give a well rounded college education, to teach people to think outside of the box and to expand overall learning. Most employers I know don't WANT someone with a narrow focused education because they can then only fill one spot in the company. They want people with a diverse background that can work independently. Now, if you are looking for someone that punches a couple buttons to make a machine work, no, you don't need someone with a four year degree for that but if you want someone that can think on their own, develop strategies and help grow a company, you want people with a 4 year degree or better for that.
I call B.S. I don't understand how writing essays on ancient civilizations, 18th century French literature and examining the intricacies of Maslow's hierarchy of needs in any way prepares you to "think critically" in the career world or to understand how to maximize your personal impact and your organization's success. It is an expensive, inefficient and pedantic detour when a young person's time could have been spent more productively.
90% of the jobs in this country can be done by somebody who can read, write, speak, show up on time, take directions and work a computer. These are all skills that should have been learned in high school and college is truly unnecessary for most.
Last edited by Renaldo5000; 10-22-2010 at 11:16 AM..
I work for a university. Costs are an ongoing issue. I must say though that the salary of college administrators can be the first step in bringing costs DOWN. Why a president of a college should make more than the president of the United States is very lost on me....
Rising costs and salaries are an ongoing issue because the universities have no reason to limit them. They have hordes of eager young people with federally backed student loan dollars. The schools want that money and attract students with ever more lavish amenities (check out the new 30 million dollar rec center!). The loan companies have nothing to worry about because Uncle Sam will pick up the tab if our poor liberal arts student defaults. It is an inflated, bubble-like and broken system that does a disservice to the productivity of this nation and its youth.
High demand plus easy credit equals exponentially rising prices. A crash in prices usually follows when the easy credit dries up. Economics 101.
I call B.S. I don't understand how writing essays on ancient civilizations, 18th century French literature and examining the intricacies of Maslow's hierarchy of needs in any way prepares you to "think critically" in the career world or to understand how to maximize your personal impact and your organization's success. It is an expensive, inefficient and pedantic detour when a young person's time could have been spent more productively.
90% of the jobs in this country can be done by somebody who can read, write, speak, show up on time, take directions and work a computer. These are all skills that should have been learned in high school and college is truly unnecessary for most.
well it's evident the first part of your post is right ... you don't understand. Are you going to be limited to 90% of the jobs in this country? Or do you want to be a doctor, lawyer, engineer, scientist, architect, school teacher, city manager or military officer (almost all of them these days have college degrees). The way you characterize what college study is about, I have to agree with you ... you really don't understand. (Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs? Hell, I had that in 10th grade).
As someone who has hired people, I can almost always tell the college grads from the non-grads after just a few minutes. And those who have run the curriculm, prevailed in obtaining that sheepskin despite all the hardship and obstacles and have made the grade, well, they want to hire others who've done that. In most professions a college degree is the equivalent of a union card. Don't shortchange yourself, that's the way is is.
The way you characterize what college study is about, I have to agree with you ... you really don't understand. (Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs? Hell, I had that in 10th grade).
Yes, I don't understand why myriads of young people are cajoled into an enterprise that many won't finish, where they will learn no tangible skills and where they will be left with massive debts. Do I want my doctor and lawyer to have gone to college? Of course. Do I want the person fixing my plumbing or doing low level office work to have done so? No. What will our intrepid philosophy and history majors do to obtain gainful employment? The whole endeavor is a wasteful and expensive distraction for a lot people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chasva69
As someone who has hired people, I can almost always tell the college grads from the non-grads after just a few minutes. And those who have run the curriculm, prevailed in obtaining that sheepskin despite all the hardship and obstacles and have made the grade, well, they want to hire others who've done that. In most professions a college degree is the equivalent of a union card. Don't shortchange yourself, that's the way is is.
This is even more proof of what is wrong with the current American educational and career paradigm - credential inflation, employers demanding a degree when you don't really need one to perform the job and a one-size-fits-all homogeneous avenue to the "good life".
What will the future of this country be for our children? Everybody has to get master's degree and be $100,000 in debt to get $12 an hour jobs? It is utter lunacy and a snake-oil racket all propped up by the federal government, greedy universities and gullible kids (and their parents) who aren't asking enough questions.
I am starting a company to tackle all of these problems. I have many solutions that will completely revolutionize the way people learn in the United States and in the world. There are several things my company is going to be focusing on:
Bottom Up Approach: The first thing we wanted to do was a bottom up approach to education. In other words, we want to focus on what EMPLOYERS are looking for in employees. Employers want people with specific skills as well as many generic qualities (communication skills, reading, writing, speaking, mathematics, critical thinking etc.). Likewise, we are going to add functionality where employers can encourage employees to learn specific skills at our school. For example, an employer can pay your class fee as well as offer you a bonus upon completion of the class.
Customizable degree: Most college students graduate with little to no practical skills. It doesn't have to be like that. Lets provide students with a well rounded basis in theory but give them the skills as well. For example, a computer science student will take all the general computer science theory courses but will also gain practical skills such as learning various programming languages (of their choosing of course).
Self-paced: Some students are faster at learning than others while some students need more time to master the concepts. The important thing to remember is that students need to learn the concepts fully, before proceeding in the course. If you don't learn adding and subtracting how are you ever going to learn algebra? Lets say a student takes a test and FAILS that exam. What does that tell us? It tells us that the student doesn't know the concepts. They should go back learn those concepts again and retake the test. In a traditional educational setting the student never fully understands the concepts because the teacher can't slowdown with teaching the rest of the students. Then we wonder why that student has such a difficult time in more advanced math classes.
Low-cost: Cost is often cited as a barrier to education. It doesn't have to be that way. Just imagine being able to take a college level course for only 40-50$ dollars TOTAL COST. No student loans required. From a business sense there is a HUGE market out there of people who want a college education but can't get one because of costs. I am going to educate those people.
Cut out the middle men: For many students tuition isn't the only cost associated with a college degree. There is also book fees. Most textbook publishers SCAM students by charging 100$+ for textbooks as well as issuing new editions very often (among many other unethical tactics). The way I look at it most general subjects don't change very fast. Math is math and English is English, been the same way for decades. My school will write high quality textbooks (e-books) and provide them free to the student.
We plan on using economies of scale to solve the cost problems. As we educate more students, the cost per student declines. To achieve this goal, we are going to focus on a global market. Our courses will be in 4 languages (English, Spanish, mandarin, and Hindi). Half the world's population speaks at least one of those 4 languages.
Those are some of the basic problems we are going to solve with education in the united states and in the world. Coming 2011!!!
I call B.S. I don't understand how writing essays on ancient civilizations, 18th century French literature and examining the intricacies of Maslow's hierarchy of needs in any way prepares you to "think critically" in the career world or to understand how to maximize your personal impact and your organization's success. It is an expensive, inefficient and pedantic detour when a young person's time could have been spent more productively.
90% of the jobs in this country can be done by somebody who can read, write, speak, show up on time, take directions and work a computer. These are all skills that should have been learned in high school and college is truly unnecessary for most.
What writing essays on 18th Century France teaches you is how to define a problem, research the information, compile that information into an intelligent report to be distributed to your boss (professor). As a side benefit you may actually learn something about the world, history and any correlations between 18th century France and 21st Century world issues. College also helps develop higher thinking skills that most high school students are not developmentally ready to handle yet.
I STRONGLY disagree that most employers want drones too. Most employers want a person, that with minimal training, can work independently and get a job done. They don't want to have to give someone a laundry list of tasks to complete each day-they want people that can think for themselves, reason their way around obstacles and contribute to the company.
Perfect example-yesterday one of the high school level educated people in my husbands office came in from her smoking break to tell my DH that it smelled like gas outside and didn't know what to do. Most people that had learned higher thinking skills would have first, put out the cigarette and second, called the gas company. For some jobs a high school education is fine but then you end up babysitting these people for the rest of their careers too.
I agree with you. And college does not teach people to think outside of the box nor does it permit critical thinking in my case. If it did we could challenge the academic structure as students and make observable changes that benefit the students at large. That would involve more formal vocational training, less theoretical and multiple choice testing, and less expensive tuition. This whole "I learned to think outside of the box" is something anyone can do for free. It's called "the library" where you will find infinite amounts of documentaries, books, databases, magazines, and music. When I hear all that doublespeak about "I learned how to think outside of the box and use critical thinking" it is as stupid and trite as someone saying "Jesus saved me." The platitudes and doublespeak are endless and the majority of these college graduates sound like automatons more than human beings who actually know how to think and use their mind for applicable purposes.
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Originally Posted by MSchemist80
Have you read any of the job ads lately? They sure as heck don't say
I want an educated and enthusiastic hire who we can train in the specifics.
They want someone with the education and experience in everything related to the position who can walk in and do the job without any training whatsoever.
Ask the BA graduates how that well rounded education is working for them as they toil away at Starbucks or Walmart. I suggest colleges start getting with the program and giving people what they want job training.
I agree with everything you say. Pedantic is the perfect word to describe the duplicity that runs rampant in our college systems i.e., ivory towers. I have a master's degree and a lot of the classes were pedantic. On a positive note ,one of the few programs that lets students design their academic path, is the interdisciplinary studies program. You can pretty much pick and choose what classes you want to take. And you choose your concentration, too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iwonderwhy2124
I call B.S. I don't understand how writing essays on ancient civilizations, 18th century French literature and examining the intricacies of Maslow's hierarchy of needs in any way prepares you to "think critically" in the career world or to understand how to maximize your personal impact and your organization's success. It is an expensive, inefficient and pedantic detour when a young person's time could have been spent more productively.
90% of the jobs in this country can be done by somebody who can read, write, speak, show up on time, take directions and work a computer. These are all skills that should have been learned in high school and college is truly unnecessary for most.
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