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I like what Flat World is doing, but their selection is very slim, to say the least.
When I went to a public college, individual professors selected which books they would use; publishers targeted individual profs. Except, all the Microbiology teachers used the same book, even though individual profs taught the course how they saw fit. When I transferred into a private college, everything was standardized. No matter what section you got for a particular course, you not only used the same textbook as the rest, but the profs taught from the same syllabus.
I never heard that it was because they got the books cheaper, but I guess it would make sense as they might get a bulk deal.
Dude its a fricken startup company. Do you honestly expect them to have 10,000 textbooks on every subject known to man? As more people use flat world knowledge, they'll write more textbooks.
This is how the standardized books idea was sold. Basically, if we all use the same book then this means that students can resell their books back to the bookstore at the end of the year. This will save money for the students, the school etc. Sounds great right? Heres the catch: Every year the textbook publisher released a new edition. The professor forces the student to buy the new textbook because it has some sort of online homework grading service and that access code is only available in the new book. Likewise, at the end of the year you can't sell the book to the bookstore since the access code has been used up. If you want to sell the book online, you'll be lucky to get 75% of what you paid since the new edition has been released and no one wants the old, "outdated" edition.
You know what? Things cost money. College isn't free. Buy your books and learn. It pays off in the long run. College textbook publishers have a limited market for product and they're expensive to produce. Does that suck a little? Yes, but a lot of things in life suck. At least with this one thing, you get a benefit from it.
You know what? Things cost money. College isn't free. Buy your books and learn. It pays off in the long run. College textbook publishers have a limited market for product and they're expensive to produce. Does that suck a little? Yes, but a lot of things in life suck. At least with this one thing, you get a benefit from it.
Its one thing to make a fair profit on a product, its another to price gouge. Last semester I payed close to $150 for a 200 page paperback history book that was like the 21st edition. Really, do they need 21 editions? I didn't think pre civil war history changed all that much.
Its one thing to make a fair profit on a product, its another to price gouge. Last semester I payed close to $150 for a 200 page paperback history book that was like the 21st edition. Really, do they need 21 editions? I didn't think pre civil war history changed all that much.
You are not thinking about this in the way that businesses think about it.
I am guessing that there are multiple publishers of college textbooks, and they want professors to choose theirs over their competitors. If they never publish a new edition, what can they do to get new professors to choose theirs? Just keep doing what they've been doing? No, they add new features, more questions, or whatever, and try to make their books better than they used to be. I have a book that my dad used in college in the early 60s. It's a book about the civil war. Holy hell, this thing is horrendous. No pictures, no questions at the end of the chapters, just straight black and white text...and it's badly written, with references to "negroes" and all manner of stuff that is outdated. From what you're saying, we should just be using that book.
And history does change. Historians find new things all the time.
So quit complaining so damn much. I went to college, bought my books, read them, learned a lot, and am a better person for it.
A lot of things in life aren't perfect. This is one of them. There's no scam, it's just a fact of life. Get a grip, and don't look at college as something to "go cheap on."
And not everyone is as pretentious as you are. College is an investment, yes, but when you have the same books going for 75% of the price with no difference, then it becomes a big problem. And the fact that bookstores will only give you a fraction of what you paid then charge 10x more doesn't help.
And you're wrong, half of the time they only change like one or two things in a book and rerelease them.
My son goes to a university that has a book rental program. Each semester the book rental fee is added to the tuition (I think the book rental fee is about $125/semester). This fee covers the main hardcover book for each course. If additional books are required for the course the student has to buy or rent those. Last semester my son didn't have to buy any additional books. I am surprised more schools don't have this type of program.
You know what? Things cost money. College isn't free. Buy your books and learn. It pays off in the long run. College textbook publishers have a limited market for product and they're expensive to produce. Does that suck a little? Yes, but a lot of things in life suck. At least with this one thing, you get a benefit from it.
It isn't that they cost money. It is the price gouging people are complaining about. Quite a few textbooks are likely to have higher sales volumes than, say, The Big Dummy's Guide to the Nikon D80, as an example. Most disciplines don't change much, thus the cost should be rather inexpensive. There is no reason to revise algebra textbooks every year and charge $135 for them. Same for foreign language textbooks, which run over $100 as well.
Hopefully soon most college text books will be available for electronic readers!
Barnes and Noble already has a Nook application for PC/Mac. Full textbooks are available. You are able to highlight passages, copy passages into a paper (with automatic annotations, etc. ). You can print off a study guide, make flash cards from your highlighted passages, etc. The Nook textbooks cost about half of a new textbook but are still a bit more than a used copy. DS18 is going to try one of these this semester and see how he likes the options on it. The e-readers just don't have the functionality to support these options.
Dude its a fricken startup company. Do you honestly expect them to have 10,000 textbooks on every subject known to man? As more people use flat world knowledge, they'll write more textbooks.
They have been around for what, two years now? I checked them out a year ago or so and they still have the same three Science and same one Math book. They only have five Humanities books, but their Business and Finance section is fairly decent.
Yes, as a start-up they should have a decent selection of product or service before they open their doors. That is what happened/why the dot com bubble burst. Waiting for [enough] students to use their service/product before they expand is weak considering they do not have the selection to bring students in the first place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Croye22
And not everyone is as pretentious as you are. College is an investment, yes, but when you have the same books going for 75% of the price with no difference, then it becomes a big problem. And the fact that bookstores will only give you a fraction of what you paid then charge 10x more doesn't help.
And you're wrong, half of the time they only change like one or two things in a book and rerelease them.
I wouldn't call KfTs reply pretentious. I find it interesting that with all the costs associated with attending college, book prices remain at the top of the list of things to complain about. As I mentioned in a previous thread, if you look at your tuition bill, you will see that you are more-than-likely paying a few hundred dollars-at the least-in fees for services that you don't, or never will, use. Where is the outrage with that? That's right, there is none. My guess is because, like with the terms of agreement for credit cards and loans, people just don't bother to read.
People only moan about the costs of books because they are now seen as a temporary need. You only need the book for one semester, so it should be cheaper, right? Keep in mind that this is a relatively new phenomenon. Not too long ago, students actually kept their textbooks to become a part of their personal libraries. Personal libraries have become a thing of the past and college education is now largely seen as job training and an entitlement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KC6ZLV
It isn't that they cost money. It is the price gouging people are complaining about. Quite a few textbooks are likely to have higher sales volumes than, say, The Big Dummy's Guide to the Nikon D80, as an example. Most disciplines don't change much, thus the cost should be rather inexpensive. There is no reason to revise algebra textbooks every year and charge $135 for them. Same for foreign language textbooks, which run over $100 as well.
Even though there are a few million of them, college students in the U.S. are a niche market. For one, very few non-college students are going to purchase a textbook, and two, not all college students take the same courses, so the market becomes even smaller. Lastly, even those students who take, say, algebra, are not all going to use the same book, either. So the market becomes even smaller.
There is no doubt that textbooks are expensive, and I will agree overpriced. But, you need to understand the reasoning behind the prices before you accuse publishers of price gouging. Before I get into that, I want to point out that very few textbooks are reprinted on a yearly basis. Three to five years is the average. Despite what some may think, it actually costs money to rewrite a textbook. A part of the costs include production and promotion, but a publisher can spend anywhere from a few hundred thousand to a million dollars or more producing a single edition. On top of that, there is the time spent by the authors updating and/or revising the editions. So, it is just not cost effective to update a textbook on a yearly basis.
Now, the main reason why textbooks are expensive is because they are generally a one-shot deal for the both the publisher and author[s]. What I mean by that is the used-book market has become big business, and when a student buys a used book, the publishers and author[s] do not see any of that money. Because of the used textbook market, it becomes imperative for textbook publishers and authors to collect the most money on the first sell.
I should also add that college bookstores make more money selling used textbooks than new. Back in the day, the typical mark-up for a new textbook was 20%. Not only that, but the publishers listed an MSRP on the book. Today, bookstores are free to sell books for what-ever price they see fit and typical mark-ups are between 30 and 35%. The mark-up on used textbooks is 40% +.
Bookstores, however, have no control over what books they sell. Only the price.
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). You can print off a study guide, make flash cards from your highlighted passages, etc. The Nook textbooks cost about half of a new textbook but are still a bit more than a used copy. DS18 is going to try one of these this semester and see how he likes the options on it. The e-readers just don't have the functionality to support these options.
