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It is extremely disrespectful to repeat the lies that Americans with science degrees are incompetent hacks and that is why American companies treat them like dirt. That is just arrogant, derogatory, blame-the-victim, nonsense and as the article indicates, that is not the case at all. I acutally have a great job now but I see what is going on and the direction the field is heading. As a result, I strongly discourage bright Americans from considering science careers until the culture of abuse and other problems is corrected and not by bringing in cheap third world slaves to abuse in place of Americans
I agree with the first part of this statement, and I can see why you are pessimistic about the field. However, I think studying science is as important for people that are not going to be scientists. We don't need armies of researchers, we need scientifically literate people to handle scientific issues in law, medicine, marketing, public health, etc. I encourage all of my B.S. students to get at least a minor in another discipline. You would be surprised how employable chemistry/marketing or chemistry/management double majors are in my area.
Location: Just transplanted to FL from the N GA mountains
3,997 posts, read 4,143,759 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bhaalspawn
I suggest doing a large amount of research and exploring other potential options. What about the possibility of trying to gain admission to a top business school? (MBAs are a dime-a-dozen, too, but it's a much more versatile degree and a combination science PhD + top school MBA might provide good opportunities since it would be a unique combination.) Definitely read archived posts at the law school scam buster blogs.
Bhaalspawn... Ever since I read this post, it has intrigued me. I would really like for him to possibly consider this. Out of curiosity, I'm wondering how much undergrad prep classes he would have to take and if his old GRE scores would still stand. Just really curious how one goes about going into a completely different direction and at the same time keeping the skills they currently have sharp? This is a young man who came out of undergrad with his B.S and two minors... all in the science fields, so he truly has no business classes to speak of....
It is extremely disrespectful to repeat the lies that Americans with science degrees are incompetent hacks and that is why American companies treat them like dirt. That is just arrogant, derogatory, blame-the-victim, nonsense and as the article indicates, that is not the case at all. I acutally have a great job now but I see what is going on and the direction the field is heading. As a result, I strongly discourage bright Americans from considering science careers until the culture of abuse and other problems is corrected and not by bringing in cheap third world slaves to abuse in place of Americans
Comparing yourself to a victim of domestic abuse because you were able to go to an institute of higher learning and can't find employment is one of the most amazing examples of entitlement that I've ever seen. Carrying the entitlement even further and comparing your situation to slavery?
I agree with the first part of this statement, and I can see why you are pessimistic about the field. However, I think studying science is as important for people that are not going to be scientists. We don't need armies of researchers, we need scientifically literate people to handle scientific issues in law, medicine, marketing, public health, etc. I encourage all of my B.S. students to get at least a minor in another discipline. You would be surprised how employable chemistry/marketing or chemistry/management double majors are in my area.
This is such an important point. Perhaps what needs to shift in our thinking is not to discourage studying the sciences, but being more clear about the range of options that exist after graduation. I agree with Chemistry_Guy. Just because jobs in pure research are few and far between doesn't mean a BS in chemistry or biology is worthless. We just need to assure that kids selecting these disiplines are aware of the realities.
Comparing yourself to a victim of domestic abuse because you were able to go to an institute of higher learning and can't find employment is one of the most amazing examples of entitlement that I've ever seen. Carrying the entitlement even further and comparing your situation to slavery?
Reread my post. First off I am not comparing myself to it. I have a great job with a great company. Second, I was comparing the argument that people should go into science because they love it and put up with whatever mistreatment companies and academia inflict on them to the argument that a spouce should put up with abuse if she really loves her husband.
It seems to be a very common blowoff that any science grad that complains about poor pay and employment prospects is just in it for the money or just incompetent hacks that deserve it (similar to telling a woman who was abused well you must have done something to provoke it).
Finally, Yes I believe scientists are entitled to benefits, a middle-class salary, and to be treated with the respect other professionals are afforded even those useless, vacuous bimbos in HR. If that makes me an entitlist then I accept that with pride. If our society decides otherwise then prehaps they don't deserve to have scientists and we should lose our place as a leader of science and innovation.
This is such an important point. Perhaps what needs to shift in our thinking is not to discourage studying the sciences, but being more clear about the range of options that exist after graduation. I agree with Chemistry_Guy. Just because jobs in pure research are few and far between doesn't mean a BS in chemistry or biology is worthless. We just need to assure that kids selecting these disiplines are aware of the realities.
Agreed they should be advised not to make science the focus of their studies. However, most colleges already have gen ed requirements for science.
Agreed they should be advised not to make science the focus of their studies. However, most colleges already have gen ed requirements for science.
I have to disagree. They need to know not to make science the ONLY focus of their studies and they need to know the reality of landing a job that entails purely science in today's job market. There are many people with degrees in biology and chemistry that are working at non-laboratory jobs that require significant scientific knowledge. We shouldn't discourage interested students from pursuing science degrees based on the assumption that the only resulting path is a job in a purely scientific discipline.
If you are going for a 4year degree, and you graduate, then you've completed college.
A common misconception these days as leaving higher education after 4 years has become the expected norm. A college career ends with a terminal degree. It did centuries ago and it does today.
We have a lot of people going to college and leaving half-way because society tells them that's what they are supposed to do. And students feel finished after accomplishing this. All that this does is create an excess of half-educated people. Employers are okay with that. Good for them.
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