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Many of the specialties on the list do not require a fellowship, though:
Psychiatry is a 4 year residency
Family Medicine 3 years
Internal Medicine 3 years
Pediatrics 3 years
OB/GYN (a surgical specialty, by the way) 4 years
Medical subspecialties that are Internal Medicine Residency of 3 years plus:
Allergy and Immunology: 2 years
Cardiology: 3 years
Cardiology/Cardiac Electrophysiology: 4 years
Cardiology/Interventional Cardiology: 4 years
Critical Care Medicine: 2 years
Endocrinology: 2 years
Geriatric Medicine: 2 years
Gastroenterology: 3 years
Gastroenterology/Hepatology: 4 years
Hematology: 2 years
Hematology/Oncology: 3 years
Infectious Diseases: 2 years
Medical Genetics: 2-4 years
Nephrology: 2 years
Oncology: 2 years
Pulmonary: 2 years
Pulmonary/Critical Care: 3 years
Rheumatology: 2 years
Sports Medicine: 1 year
Emergency medicine is 3 to 4 years depending on the program.
There are plenty of sub-specialties that do not require a "minimum of 3 years" after a residency.
In addition, some programs have fast track options that reduce the Internal medicine portion of the training for sub-specialties to 2 years.
The person in the OP could be practicing in as little as seven years after starting medical school. If the medical school is on a schedule that traditionally has summer breaks, forgoing those breaks can shorten the time to graduation by six months.
I know a physician who is a psychiatrist. He is a Vietnam veteran, used G. I. Bill benefits to pay for medical school, and skipped the summer breaks, finishing six months ahead of his medical school classmates and starting his residency mid year. He is now 69 years old and still practices full time, with no plan to retire - ever.
Many military retirees start second careers at age 40 to 50. No reason for medicine not to be an option.
A lot of this is true, but the NRMP and Fellowship programs have undergone many changes in the last few years and I think there are still some changes to come in the next few as well.
I come from a medical family. My father is a anesthesiologist. Back in his time, one had to train in surgery before the anesthesia residency. My grandfather was Rheumatologist and Pediatrician. I'm married to a pediatric cardiologist.
The name of the game these days is specialization. I understand that just becoming a doctor with a general practice would probably be the goal of someone starting medical school at a nontraditional age, but most grads these days go on to specialize in one or two things. It wouldn't be uncommon to find pediatrician that is also a pulmonologist and also an allergist. Nearly all radiologists specialize in a sub-specialty.
A lot of this is true, but the NRMP and Fellowship programs have undergone many changes in the last few years and I think there are still some changes to come in the next few as well.
I come from a medical family. My father is a anesthesiologist. Back in his time, one had to train in surgery before the anesthesia residency. My grandfather was Rheumatologist and Pediatrician. I'm married to a pediatric cardiologist.
The name of the game these days is specialization. I understand that just becoming a doctor with a general practice would probably be the goal of someone starting medical school at a nontraditional age, but most grads these days go on to specialize in one or two things. It wouldn't be uncommon to find pediatrician that is also a pulmonologist and also an allergist. Nearly all radiologists specialize in a sub-specialty.
I think that would depend on the size of the community you live in. We have no pediatric sub-specialists here except neonatology --- and they don't live here --- and one pediatric cardiologist.
There were 17 specialties listed, at MOST 3-4 where one could begin 3-4 years after after med school...
Clearly MOST are not 3-4 years after med school...
The post I originally responded to indicated an additional "minimum of 3 years" after a residency, implying that a doc must first do a residency then a fellowship. The people who choose straight internal medicine or family medicine are in practice as soon as they finish the residency: 3 years after medical school.
Pediatricians are in practice 3 years after medical school and obstetricians 4 years. Emergency medicine can be 3 or 4 years depending on the program. Psychiatry is 4 years after medical school.
The medical sub-specialties are more frequently internal medicine (3 years) plus a two year fellowship: 5 years after medical school.
So the statement that "a minimum of 3 years after a residency" is needed by most specialties before entering practice is incorrect.
The post I originally responded to indicated an additional "minimum of 3 years" after a residency, implying that a doc must first do a residency then a fellowship. The people who choose straight internal medicine or family medicine are in practice as soon as they finish the residency: 3 years after medical school.
Pediatricians are in practice 3 years after medical school and obstetricians 4 years. Emergency medicine can be 3 or 4 years depending on the program. Psychiatry is 4 years after medical school.
The medical sub-specialties are more frequently internal medicine (3 years) plus a two year fellowship: 5 years after medical school.
So the statement that "a minimum of 3 years after a residency" is needed by most specialties before entering practice is incorrect.
"Actually, most are three or four years after medical school."
READ what YOU wrote above...that is the direct quote
THIS post by YOU was a direct response to a post by PennQuaker listing 16 medical and surgical specialties..
So the statement YOU made, "most are 3-4 years after medical school" is incorrect.
"Actually, most are three or four years after medical school."
READ what YOU wrote above...that is the direct quote
THIS post by YOU was a direct response to a post by PennQuaker listing 16 medical and surgical specialties..
So the statement YOU made, "most are 3-4 years after medical school" is incorrect.
The funny thing is, I know a lot of med students/recent graduates and the number that are in primary care is very small. Pretty much all have gone on to do more training. It mimics the national trend.
The funny thing is, I know a lot of med students/recent graduates and the number that are in primary care is very small. Pretty much all have gone on to do more training. It mimics the national trend.
You are exactly right. The trend is definitely toward's more specialized care not less. The majority of physicians in training right now will go on to do fellowship training.
The number of physicians going directly into practice 3 years out of medical school after an IM residency is small and getting smaller all the time...
I just wanted to let everyone know it's never too late to pursue your goals and dreams. long story short, he retired from the service (after 20 years), graduated from a small state school in maryland, got accepted to a post doc program, did well (it was a year long full time program) and got accepted to a pretty good med program. of course there were doubters who said he was too old, there were doubters who said he couldn't hack it academically since he was a liberal arts (sociology) undergrad major. his journey isn't over, as it's just really begun but, i know he will do well. anything he's set his mind on accomplishing he has. not bad for a guy who dropped out of high school and got a GED.
I have met two cases like that.
In the first, the guy left high school to help his mother take care of his father who was bed bound. After his father passed away, he held menial jobs.
One day, he met a college professor who encouraged him to take the GED and apply to head to the university. After a LOT of coaxing, he agreed. The professor introduced him to a number of the professors and started working on a gardening project with a biology professor.
The last time I heard, the buy had a PhD and was a botanist working at a large university.
In the second, I was working with a Physicians Assistant in a rural hospital. The guy's one ambition was to be an MD. When he was not accepted into the seven medical schools he applied to, he went back and got certified as a PA. For the next EIGHT years, he would apply to all the state medical schools. In the ninth year, he was accepted.
Can you imagine those opressed savages in other countries where evil dictators took away the freedoms of accumulating college degrees at one's whim (provided sufficient funds, naturally). Thanks to our brave men & women in uniform who defended our cherished freedom just like this one.
You get accepted, you pay, you pass tests and voila - a degree is yours whether you are 25 or 75, Iran or Canada. Raking in a degree is NOT a big deal, neither is shopping at a Wal Mart. What you gonna do with that at the ripe age of 47+ is quite another matter. If you are an independently wealthy, or you have a secure job behind your back, getting another degree is just like a hobby. You may turn your hobby into a business, or you might not, not a big deal, have fun. If you have to turn your degree into Cash flow ASAP to pay bills & loans at the ripe age of 47, especially if your degree is in something unrelated to your previous experience, it's not even a gamble, it's stupidity. Medical field is little bit lenient in this regard and there are a few "feel good stories" about guys in their 40s breaking in the field, but, every year dozens of people win millions in lotteries (it's way more than the number of freshly minted 47 years olds entering medical profession). Other fields are merciless, no feel good stories there.
The guy put in his 20 years, that means GI bill + VA care + $3,000/month at least. For him it's a hobby without major consequences. But, on the other hand, if he takes a loan to put himself through medical school, and considering all the horror stories about student loan mafia, it's a big gamble anyway. However, if some penniless idiot will get inspired by his example, there will not be happy ending there. I've seen a couple of broke guys getting a Ph.D. in engineering in their 50th (with a specific goal of making more $$$ upon graduation), that was sorry looking futility, neither made it through, both were rewarded with an M.S. and both can use their diplomas to wipe their arses, UNEMPLOYABLE.
The thing about medical school is that there is no guarantee of acceptance.
If your grades were excellent and you do a postdoc, there is a better chance.
If your grades were mediocre, 3.0 or worse, you have to remediate that GPA until it reaches a certain point to even have a shot on top of taking the relevant pre-med courses. So, you may be looking at 2 years of schooling full time, after which, there is a very good chance you will not be accepted anywhere. That would be a waste.
And then if you do get accepted, you're looking forward to 7 years before you're making $. So, 9 years, age 51, and then the first 9 years or so will go back to paying medical school loans.
So, you'll be age 60 before you break even and start making any kind of $.
But in general, yes, never too late.
Well, this guy was accepted to med school, so none of the above applies. He's retired military, has an income.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth
Bakke was turned down for med school due to his age at time of application. He wanted to launch and age discrimination suit, but his lawyer advised instead to make it a racial quota/discrimination suit. He said that had a greater chance of success. And the rest is history.
I didn't know that regarding the age issue. So he came off looking like a racist. I had to look up the case to see what happened. That was then. Now, it's not unusual for a beginning med student to be well into his/her 20s when entering. Supposedly, the University of Colorado has a reputation for being accepting of "older" applicants.
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