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Interesting data:
"Bureau of Labor Statistics data show that as many as one out of three college graduates today are in jobs that previously or historically have been filled by people with lesser educations or none. The U.S. now has 115,000 janitors with college degrees, along with 83,000 bartenders, 80,000 heavy-duty truck drivers, and 323,000 waiters and waitresses"
The issue at hand is not the question of "who should attend college" (the strawman trotted out by Octa a perfect example), rather, we are faced w/the issue of many attending college who simply cannot use (and, to be perfectly honest, could not pass w/o far lower standards) higher education yet have borrowed many thousands of dollars with no expectation of return. That which cannot continue on, won't.
Interesting data:
"Bureau of Labor Statistics data show that as many as one out of three college graduates today are in jobs that previously or historically have been filled by people with lesser educations or none. The U.S. now has 115,000 janitors with college degrees, along with 83,000 bartenders, 80,000 heavy-duty truck drivers, and 323,000 waiters and waitresses"
The issue at hand is not the question of "who should attend college" (the strawman trotted out by Octa a perfect example), rather, we are faced w/the issue of many attending college who simply cannot use (and, to be perfectly honest, could not pass w/o far lower standards) higher education yet have borrowed many thousands of dollars with no expectation of return. That which cannot continue on, won't.
Probably a lot of for-profit and low level school graduates in those totals.
Shut off loans to for-profits would be a first step.
The issue I think is that student loans cannot be written off in bankruptcy. Why should someone be able to discharge credit card debt they spent on tvs, fancy furniture, etc., and not be able to write off crushing debt they got doing what they had been told from birth was necessary to become a successful person? It's going to be a crucial issue but a politically difficult one.
I agree!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayess1
Interesting data:
"Bureau of Labor Statistics data show that as many as one out of three college graduates today are in jobs that previously or historically have been filled by people with lesser educations or none. The U.S. now has 115,000 janitors with college degrees, along with 83,000 bartenders, 80,000 heavy-duty truck drivers, and 323,000 waiters and waitresses"
The issue at hand is not the question of "who should attend college" (the strawman trotted out by Octa a perfect example), rather, we are faced w/the issue of many attending college who simply cannot use (and, to be perfectly honest, could not pass w/o far lower standards) higher education yet have borrowed many thousands of dollars with no expectation of return. That which cannot continue on, won't.
I'll admit it is interesting, but not for the reasons you think it is. We're currently experiencing an excess supply of labor in a very constrained labor market. Simply put, there aren't enough jobs currently for everyone to fill so college grads are having to take whatever they can get to make ends meet. Since the recession started, the group of kids graduating in it or around it have been dubbed the boomeragers because many of them are finding themselves having to move back in with their parents.
Quote:
A survey conducted by the Pew Research Center in December 2011 found that 53% of 18- to 24-year-olds are living with their parents or moved back with them temporarily during the past few years.
...
Stubbornly high unemployment -- nearly 15% for those ages 20-24 -- has made finding a job nearly impossible. And without a job, there's nowhere for these young adults to go but back to their old bedrooms, curfews and chore charts. Meet the boomerangers.
...
So hard that a whopping 85% of college seniors planned to move back home with their parents after graduation last May, according to a poll by Twentysomething Inc., a marketing and research firm based in Philadelphia. That rate has steadily risen from 67% in 2006.
"It's peaking at levels we have not seen before," said David Morrison, managing director and founder of Twentysomething.
The National Bureau of Economic Research(a non-partisan non-profit organization) has also found that graduates who graduate during a recession end up earning way less than their counterparts who graduate during a boom and that their total lifetime earnings are low. That's something that's really interesting because this happens to be the worst downturn since the 1930s. It began in 2007 and doesn't look like it's going to get better anytime soon.
Quote:
There are three central findings in this study. First, luck matters, because graduating in a recession leads to large initial earnings losses. These losses, which amount to about 9 percent of annual earnings in the initial stage, eventually recede, but slowly -- halving within five years but not disappearing until about ten years after graduation. Second, initial random shocks affect the entire career. Graduating in a recession leads workers to start at smaller and lower paying firms, and they catch-up by switching jobs more frequently than those who graduate in better times. Third, some workers are more affected by luck than others. In particular, earnings losses from temporarily high unemployment rates are minimal for workers with two or more years of work experience and are greatest for labor market entrants. Among graduates, those with the lowest predicted earnings suffer significantly larger and much more persistent earnings losses than those at the top.
1) And while I'm at it: I didn't pose any question of who should attend college and I didn't "trot" a strawman just because I pointed out why you were wrong about college being worthless which is something you continue to parade.
2) Can you please point me to some serious study that says that college is now easy for people who you deem worthy of not being able to go?
3) The rate of return on a college degree surpasses that of a high school diploma. Here's one of numerous studies that show the earning power of a college degree looking at the median income of a group of degrees and dividing them up between bachelors and masters:
The issue as I've stated numerous times is the rising tuition costs which has been outpacing inflation that has led to the national student debt burden surpassing credit card debt. Cutting off educational access isn't a solution unless your goal is to decrease social mobility which we're doing a great job of already.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatornation
Probably a lot of for-profit and low level school graduates in those totals.
Shut off loans to for-profits would be a first step.
I agree. For-profit colleges prey upon working parents and people who want to get a "useful" degree by marketing themselves that way. As a result people from for profit schools end up with the highest debt burden between them and non-profit school.
Get a job a a long haul trucker and pay your dept.
What you can't work out side of the field you have a degree in?
You agreed to the dept, now it's time to pay back that cheep and easy to get money.
Forgive all dept. and watch the next depression happen as you gaze at your diploma.
I'm not sure how forgiving debt would lead to a new depression. Quite the opposite actually.
07-25-2012, 10:33 PM
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n/a posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by coped
I'm not sure how forgiving debt would lead to a new depression. Quite the opposite actually.
Short term, yes, it'd have the opposite effect. Long term, it'd be a disaster. People shouldn't expect that government will swoop in to rescue them from their poor financial decisions, because eventually government won't be able to do that (at least not without causing credit downgrades, devaluation of the dollar, etc).
Short term, yes, it'd have the opposite effect. Long term, it'd be a disaster. People shouldn't expect that government will swoop in to rescue them from their poor financial decisions, because eventually government won't be able to do that (at least not without causing credit downgrades, devaluation of the dollar, etc).
I don't think that's going to happen ever. I don't see how how credit downgrades or devaluations have anything to do with it besides being the new buzzwords from some new members of congress. If you really believe that then explain away countries that subsidize education more or completely altogether for every level.
The only thing I can think of that might make sense is a gradual forgiveness program where for a certain amount of community service hours, a certain amount would be forgiven. It would help people with enormous student loan debt gradually get out while giving back to their local communities.
How much money is out in student loans?
This money came from someplace and from someone.
This money when payed back is now available to others.
Forgiving this dept will not help the economy.
but hurt it, so the depression was an exaggeration.
Hey, what's good for you should be good for me.
Why not forgive all private dept. if it's so good for the economy?
We all have dept, Does it matter how we acquired it?
You didn't have to go to collage, you made a choice, like buying a car or a home, you don't have to, you chose to, Remember that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by coped
I'm not sure how forgiving debt would lead to a new depression. Quite the opposite actually.
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