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So, what you're suggesting is that standards have actually become more rigorous. What used to be core requirements for accepted students are now admission requirements. But if that were the case, top-tier graduates would be better educated than ever ... and that's the reverse of what is actually happening, at least when it comes to breadth of knowledge.
How do you know that? I am not a fan of studying everything under the sun so that you are not really an expert in anything.
Any thoughts on they impressive Brooklyn core curriculum pilgrim or are you just looking to move goalposts to a different argument and abandon this horrible earning?
Sorry, I tend to pass over posts dripping with sarcasm and fallacious arguments. And when you omit capitalization and punctuation besides, well ... call me prejudiced.
how intellectual ...... No sarcasm in the post about the actual curriculum posted by the actual university ... Just facts from the horses mouth .... it pretty much kills the credibility of this study though and that is no joke
Let's be crystal clear here - if I were to go here for a business degree I would have to take zero hard history courses, zero true science courses, I could pass the foreign language requirement because I passed the level 3 regents exam in HS for Latin, I could get by on speech by just passing a screening and the business requirements are pretty flimsy
WOW
this is an A level academic program?
... again - I still can't get over that Brooklyn College has an "A" level core
It definitely looks like some of the courses under "Philosophical and Social Inquiry" qualify as history survey courses, so I don't know what your problem is there. You need to read the course descriptions.
I'm really not qualified to evaluate the content of the science courses as described.
The top-tier schools are found all through the rankings. Harvard leads with 69.6%, a mighty D+.
I just took the test, with my lowly CSU Sacramento education, and scored 83.3%.
CSUS received a "B" from the ACTA study, and Harvard a "D". Pretty much a straight correlation.
the letter grade is based on change from freshman to senior, not absolute score
harvard actually ranks far higher than the state school average in absolute score. you neglect to post the link for CSU's score, but overall non flagship state schools scored 47.4, which is well below harvard's 69.6
in addition to this deliberately misleading mix of delta score and absolute score, you also grossly misuse the word correlation, since your sample size is 1 (your own score). ironic in a thread like this
strangely enough, they don't post other important information like standard deviations and medians and such. strange, since any intro stats class you can take for a math requirement will stress the importance of this
The "A" schools are all traditional conservative colleges. The more liberal a college, the more strictly they are graded.
For example, the school that invented the great books and core curriculum concepts, University of Chicago, is given a C grade. University of Chicago used to be viewed as a conservative school, but their economics school and affiliation with Obama has been treated as a strike against them that puts them on the other side of the aisle.
Why? Well, they are marked down on foreign language because students can test out of the foreign language requirement if they demonstrate written and oral fluency in a language.
They are marked down on economics because they require a 3 course social science sequence including an 8 week long economics component, but it is not a stand alone economics class by itself.
They are marked down on history because their landmark civilization sequence requirement, the source of the "Great Books" concept and considered one of the most difficult lower division courses in America, is a "civilization" course. They simple ignore that the entire course is reading primary source historical documents with historical interpretation. There is only one secondary source document in the entire three course sequence (De Tocqueville's Democracy in America) and no text book. But it covers all of western civilization, not US history by itself, so it does not count.
So, what you're suggesting is that standards have actually become more rigorous. What used to be core requirements for accepted students are now admission requirements. But if that were the case, top-tier graduates would be better educated than ever ... and that's the reverse of what is actually happening, at least when it comes to breadth of knowledge.
My point, at least, is that breadth of knowledge is not necessarily the most important aspect of learning. Depth of knowledge in one particular area can also be important. In my opinion, it's more important. It's better to be a true expert in one particular area than to know a little bit about everything.
the letter grade is based on change from freshman to senior, not absolute score
You mean Harvard's "D+" ? No, that's based on the school's absolute score of 69.6 percent. The report doesn't grade on a curve.
Harvard's change in score from freshman to senior of just 5.97 percentage points wasn't assigned a letter grade. But I'm glad you brought that up. The fact that seniors only improved their civic literacy by 6 points after four years at Harvard is fairly staggering.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OdysseusNY
harvard actually ranks far higher than the state school average in absolute score. you neglect to post the link for CSU's score, but overall non flagship state schools scored 47.4, which is well below harvard's 69.6
That sounds about right. And yet, the tables indicate that state universities did a much better job of increasing the student's knowledge over four years than the elite schools. Students at UC Berkeley, Rutgers, Princeton, St. John's (NY), Duke, Yale, and Cornell actually lost ground after four years. How pathetic is that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by OdysseusNY
in addition to this deliberately misleading mix of delta score and absolute score ...
I have no idea what you are talking about here. Please prove it or retract the accusation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OdysseusNY
... you also grossly misuse the word correlation, since your sample size is 1 (your own score). ironic in a thread like this
That comment was thoroughly tongue-in-cheek and should have had a after it.
Last edited by WesternPilgrim; 10-11-2012 at 05:55 PM..
My point, at least, is that breadth of knowledge is not necessarily the most important aspect of learning. Depth of knowledge in one particular area can also be important. In my opinion, it's more important. It's better to be a true expert in one particular area than to know a little bit about everything.
I understand your point but I'm afraid you present a false dilemma. One needs a certain breadth of knowledge to be a functional and contributing citizen - to be an educated man. This in no way detracts from the ability to specialize.
The "A" schools are all traditional conservative colleges. The more liberal a college, the more strictly they are graded.
CUNY is conservative? Cal-Poly is conservative? (please) Texas A&M is conservative? I'm sure you will find both the faculty and administrations of 40-50 percent of "A list" schools to be overwhelmingly politically liberal.
Nevertheless, it's true that conservative schools are disproportionately represented on the "A list". That just means that conservative educators tend to be more strongly supportive of liberal education.
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after it.
