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Software Engineering around here is in fact writing code. The only software engineers I know who don't touch code are those in management. Some have EE degrees, some have CS degrees, and some have Computer Engineering degrees.
This is what I always thought. The term engineer means that when given a set of parameters you create something to do a task. To me the titles of software engineer and software developer imply that the person writes and tests code.
IT is a whole other field.
To more closely respond to the OP, it's my understanding that MIS is sort of a business/IT hybrid just like CSE is sort of an EE/CS hybrid. Think more about what you want to do with your day while at work. It's also my understanding that CS is a more difficult degree, though the starting salaries are a among the highest of any bachelors degree.
Some people or places use developer/programmer/software engineer/etc. interchangeably. Even places that know better do that. But software engineering is the only one that is a truly defined and systematic practice. You can get a universally recognized degree in software engineering from many universities across the country. You can't get a degree in development or programming. As earlier noted, ACM and IEEE recognize and define the practice of software engineering. Additionally, there is an actual Software Engineering Institute funded by the DOD. Software engineering is a clearly defined practice that is mostly about analysis, design, and testing of large systems. If you follow the paradigm, coding is meant to be minimized because you efficiently designed your system.
That being said, software engineering does lack a lot of the characteristics found in traditional engineering. It truly is soft compared to the other engineering disciplines.
I was a 'software engineer' for many years at a large defense contractor. I was adept at creating worthless documents and accumulating requests for worthless meetings. The company knew exactly what software engineering was, but didn't really follow the practice because they just wanted to meet a few monthly metrics and push the software out the door. So the title is thrown around a lot even though it is a clearly defined practice
Excuse my ignorance. When I got my undergraduate degree, Computer Science was all there was, (1982). At San Diego State, it was part of the math department. I had to take three semesters of calculus and linear algebra after that, along with all the computer classes, (compiler design, algorithms, data structures, assembly language, simulation languages, etc.).
I've heard of a CIS degree, which I think was a spinoff from CompSci. What is a "MIS" degree?
Pre-80s, Computer Science was often part of the engineering school. I could imagine it being part of the math department as well.
The curriculum you describe is similar to the curriculum of a computer science degree today. It also requires Physics and/or Chemistry.
CIS and MIS are both related to the application of computing technologies to business.
This is what I always thought. The term engineer means that when given a set of parameters you create something to do a task. To me the titles of software engineer and software developer imply that the person writes and tests code.
IT is a whole other field.
To more closely respond to the OP, it's my understanding that MIS is sort of a business/IT hybrid just like CSE is sort of an EE/CS hybrid. Think more about what you want to do with your day while at work. It's also my understanding that CS is a more difficult degree, though the starting salaries are a among the highest of any bachelors degree.
An engineer is simply someone who applies science to provide a solution.
A software engineer analyzes a problem, assesses various software solutions, and draws up a plan. Software developers, architects, etc. will carry out the plan.
My dad said that when he was hiring programmers, the only real difference between MIS/CIS applicants and CS was the math background. Most of the stuff you will learn is on the job anyway, unless you plan on being a full time algorithm researcher, CS is mostly just showing off algorithmic expertise and "proving" something works for any possible case, and how quickly it works. In this regard, a math degree is much more preferred, and doesn't tie programmers down to bad habits formed from making 100 line "hello world" programs.
CS is more of a study of logic-based computational systems in general. A computer is basically just a demonstration tool like telescopes are for astronomy. The concepts and realities already existed well before Babbage. The true core of CS is more based in mathematics, psychology, philosophy and language studies, which are ancient. Only 3 classes in my major path have tackled hardware to any detailed degree. These were the assembly language and computer organization classes. I'm glad. If I wanted hardware, I would have gone into EE.
I would liken CS more to a social science - but one where the agents "socializing" are machines instead of humans. Also, most of the time you are worried about user interactions, so you end up thinking about human psychology and communication. What astronomers or physicists worry about whether users will click on a sun or planet and change the course of their reality, or how useable the oxygen interface is on a planet? Most of the stuff "hard" sciences focus on is pretty deterministic.
Last edited by Hamtonfordbury; 11-12-2014 at 06:27 PM..
My dad said that when he was hiring programmers, the only real difference between MIS/CIS applicants and CS was the math background. Most of the stuff you will learn is on the job anyway, unless you plan on being a full time algorithm researcher, CS is mostly just showing off algorithmic expertise and "proving" something works for any possible case, and how quickly it works. In this regard, a math degree is much more preferred, and doesn't tie programmers down to bad habits formed from making 100 line "hello world" programs.
CS is more of a study of logic-based computational systems in general. A computer is basically just a demonstration tool like telescopes are for astronomy. The concepts and realities already existed well before Babbage. The true core of CS is more based in mathematics, psychology, philosophy and language studies, which are ancient. Only 3 classes in my major path have tackled hardware to any detailed degree. These were the assembly language and computer organization classes. I'm glad. If I wanted hardware, I would have gone into EE.
I would liken CS more to a social science - but one where the agents "socializing" are machines instead of humans. Also, most of the time you are worried about user interactions, so you end up thinking about human psychology and communication. What astronomers or physicists worry about whether users will click on a sun or planet and change the course of their reality, or how useable the oxygen interface is on a planet? Most of the stuff "hard" sciences focus on is pretty deterministic.
Your analogy is a bit off. A better analogy is a physicist and a electrician. A physicist discovered electricity and made sense of it. An electrician just uses it or makes it easy for others to use. Similarly, a computer scientist creates technology. An MIS/CIS professional uses technology for a business application.
My dad said that when he was hiring programmers, the only real difference between MIS/CIS applicants and CS was the math background. Most of the stuff you will learn is on the job anyway, unless you plan on being a full time algorithm researcher, CS is mostly just showing off algorithmic expertise and "proving" something works for any possible case, and how quickly it works. In this regard, a math degree is much more preferred, and doesn't tie programmers down to bad habits formed from making 100 line "hello world" programs.
CS is more of a study of logic-based computational systems in general. A computer is basically just a demonstration tool like telescopes are for astronomy. The concepts and realities already existed well before Babbage. The true core of CS is more based in mathematics, psychology, philosophy and language studies, which are ancient. Only 3 classes in my major path have tackled hardware to any detailed degree. These were the assembly language and computer organization classes. I'm glad. If I wanted hardware, I would have gone into EE.
I would liken CS more to a social science - but one where the agents "socializing" are machines instead of humans. Also, most of the time you are worried about user interactions, so you end up thinking about human psychology and communication. What astronomers or physicists worry about whether users will click on a sun or planet and change the course of their reality, or how useable the oxygen interface is on a planet? Most of the stuff "hard" sciences focus on is pretty deterministic.
Too much misinformation in that wall of text to even address.
I don't even look at MIS/CIS grads for software development positions unless they have relevant experience. If CS degrees were anything like what you describe they would be BA degrees.
Too much misinformation in that wall of text to even address.
I don't even look at MIS/CIS grads for software development positions unless they have relevant experience. If CS degrees were anything like what you describe they would be BA degrees.
While I don't agree with the person's description of computer science degrees, there are dozens of schools that offer a BA in computer science. Some schools only offer a BA in computer science because they think that the heavy focus on mathematics and physics make it a liberal art; and, all of their liberal arts degrees are BAs.
While I don't agree with the person's description of computer science degrees, there are dozens of schools that offer a BA in computer science. Some schools only offer a BA in computer science because they think that the heavy focus on mathematics and physics make it a liberal art; and, all of their liberal arts degrees are BAs.
My CS undergraduate degree from SDSU in 1982 is a BA degree. BS wasn't even an option. These days, they award a BS and a MS degree and are their own department, no longer part of the Mathematics department.
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