All Grad Course vs Ugrad/Grad Combo Course (PhDs, degree, school)

[PostSecularist]

I notice that quite a few graduate courses, especially in the arts and sciences, are sometimes paired with 4th year (and sometimes 3rd year) undergraduate courses, so that the class has a mixture of both undergrads and grads. In most cases, the only difference between course requirements is a few extra essay pages for grads, or a presentation in lieu of a short essay.

In general, would Ugrad/Grad Combo courses in the sciences and humanities be easier than full grad courses that are not paired with undergraduates? What's your take on that?

[OdysseusNY]

in my experience you can't really make an assumption either way. it depends on the school, department, or even just the instructor. sometimes any difference is for purely administrative reasons. other times, the grad course is harder

i've taken 100% grad courses that were no harder than the 100% ugrad version of the same course at the university i'm at now

my previous university often mixed ugrad with grad and those courses were quite hard

i also know quite a few undergraduates who are much sharper than most of the master's students in my program, and often it's those types of ugrads who wind up in a grad course

so you have to check the specific course

Certainly depends.

My limited experience has been that combination courses vary from grossly watered down versions of what a grad course should be to basically just a grad course that happens to have a few undergrads in it.

[K-Luv]

Originally Posted by PostSecularist

I notice that quite a few graduate courses, especially in the arts and sciences, are sometimes paired with 4th year (and sometimes 3rd year) undergraduate courses, so that the class has a mixture of both undergrads and grads. In most cases, the only difference between course requirements is a few extra essay pages for grads, or a presentation in lieu of a short essay.

In general, would Ugrad/Grad Combo courses in the sciences and humanities be easier than full grad courses that are not paired with undergraduates? What's your take on that?

I've heard undergrads taking graduate courses and grads taking undergraduate courses, but I have never heard of a hybrid UG/G course.

Originally Posted by OdysseusNY

i also know quite a few undergraduates who are much sharper than most of the master's students in my program, and often it's those types of ugrads who wind up in a grad course

so you have to check the specific course

Define "sharper". When I read that I got an image of a bunch of undergrads trying to show off. Even though most are required to maintain a high GPA (3.0 or above), the whole notion of grades and scores and general competitiveness tends to stop with grad students. At least they made it into graduate school. Their only concern now more-than-likely is to simply stay afloat.

[OdysseusNY]

Originally Posted by K-Luv

Define "sharper". When I read that I got an image of a bunch of undergrads trying to show off. Even though most are required to maintain a high GPA (3.0 or above), the whole notion of grades and scores and general competitiveness tends to stop with grad students. At least they made it into graduate school. Their only concern now more-than-likely is to simply stay afloat.

by "sharper" i mean better across the board. intelligence, work ethic, intuition, grades, etc. not "showing off" (unless you define "showing off" as "doing better work")

i went to a top 10 school for my ugrad and in many of the departments there ugrads were allowed to take grad courses as long as they could handle it (often needed to clear with prof first)

in my current school (not top 10) i teach a required 300 level ugrad course so i know most of the undergrads, and i've taken classes with most of the master's students and many of the PhDs. the best of the ugrads are at least as good as most of the master's students and some of the phds. of course there are a lot of crappy ugrads too, but they aren't in the mixed classes

i actually petitioned to take a ugrad course in lieu of a grad course next semester because it's better than most of my other course options and because particular professor isn't teaching any grad courses. my department is simply cross listing it with a grad course number for registration so I can get credit, but it's the same course. and i expect it to be significantly harder than many of the grad courses i've taken

so overall i don't think it's a good idea to generalize. most classes have the syllabus posted online (and some even have the homeworks and practice tests) so you can often just look and see rather than guess

[marigolds6]

Hybrid UG/G courses (often called 400/500 courses) are supposed to be easier for grad students than regular grad (500) courses. Almost all programs significantly limit the number of those courses that a grad student can take in their degree program; some do not allow 400/500 courses to be counted in degree programs at all (they can only be taken for background courses).

[Briolat21]

In my school ugrads in the sciences could petition to take a 500 level class if they required electives and had no other options.

Since my program - microbiology - was transitioning and half the previously offered courses were no longer offered on a regular basis - I ended up taking a crazy number of 500 level biology/microbiology courses just to get my BS degree.

There was usually myself and one or two other BS students in the class. The only difference in course work between us and the grad students is the grad students had one additional paper to write.

The classes were difficult. The grad students thought they were difficult. But, I don't know how you'd teach things like molecular genetics at a lower level - so there weren't a whole lot of options. They were great classes and I learned a lot ... but it was not an easy road.