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What's happened is what we all knew but no one said out loud. "Colleges" like ITT Tech existed for two reasons - 1) to defraud students and 2) collect the maximum percentage possible of whatever student grant or loan money those students could get awarded.
Aren't all colleges/universities out there mainly for the profits?
They make tons of $$$ off of student's futures by a promise that they'll end up in successful, well paying careers. Then the students that graduate can't get a job or stuck at a Mcjob earning a Mcwage. If colleges promise me that I'll be in a successful career and I can't get a job or I'm stuck at McD's, they better pay me back every cent that I've spent. I can't believe how people would find this ethical and I'm surprised that nothing is done about this.
Aren't all colleges/universities out there mainly for the profits?
They make tons of $$$ off of student's futures by a promise that they'll end up in successful, well paying careers. Then the students that graduate can't get a job or stuck at a Mcjob earning a Mcwage. If colleges promise me that I'll be in a successful career and I can't get a job or I'm stuck at McD's, they better pay me back every cent that I've spent. I can't believe how people would find this ethical and I'm surprised that nothing is done about this.
It depends on what college you go to. Clearly ITTech was a fraud. Those who graduate from Harvard don't get stuck at a McJob or earn Mcwages.
There's data on how many graduates from what schools are able to find employment, and ITTech had unacceptably low employment after graduation.
Aren't all colleges/universities out there mainly for the profits?
They make tons of $$$ off of student's futures by a promise that they'll end up in successful, well paying careers. Then the students that graduate can't get a job or stuck at a Mcjob earning a Mcwage. If colleges promise me that I'll be in a successful career and I can't get a job or I'm stuck at McD's, they better pay me back every cent that I've spent. I can't believe how people would find this ethical and I'm surprised that nothing is done about this.
The college I went to paid off.
The difference with a "real" college - meaning a public university or private non-profit - would be that there are disciplinary & other academic standards upheld. Those colleges & their activities are also accredited by an outside body.
I might have done nothing with my degree, but I can't say that they didn't teach me what I signed up to learn.
My dad majored in music and then proceeded to do nothing with it besides side gigs; getting into agriculture and real estate instead. But he could at least say that he had legitimate musicians and music scholars teach him the theory & practice of music & how to be a musician according to the standards of the discipline. That was what he paid for.
ITT Tech didn't even have legitimate instructors teaching anything legitimate. They taught courses that probably wouldn't be GED level courses and charged big money for them.
In recent years things went far beyond ITT. People opened up very shoddy "schools" to give out degrees to students. The internet made it even easier for anyone not able to get into a legitimate program (yes there are reputable degree programs online) to go to a crappy online school or a school that had a combination of online courses and physical campuses. So many students graduated unable to get employment, and by funding these programs the federal government was a defacto enabler. Now they are holding schools accountable for what they produce. Either the schools graduate people who are able to find jobs, or they lose accreditation and ability to get federal funding and they go out of business.
I don't think online programs have anything to do with this. ITT Tech has been around long before online programs were a thing. I could be wrong, but I think most of their students attended on campus even after they started offering online programs. Actually, the worst and most expensive for-profit colleges that have been defrauding students for decades typically either have a small online presence or no online presence. They are usually the vo-tech schools that offer hands-on training and are accredited by ACICS or ACCSC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57
Those colleges & their activities are also accredited by an outside body.
This makes no difference. Every school that qualifies for Title IV funding (Pell Grant, Direct Loans, etc.) is accredited by an outside body. It's required by the law. University of Phoenix, Devry University, Kaplan University, and dozens (potentially hundreds) of for-profits are accredited by the same body that accredits ASU; University of Arizona; University of Chicago; and ever other public university; community college; and regionally accredited, non-profit, private university in the North Central Association (HLC).
Aren't all colleges/universities out there mainly for the profits?
They make tons of $$$ off of student's futures by a promise that they'll end up in successful, well paying careers. Then the students that graduate can't get a job or stuck at a Mcjob earning a Mcwage. If colleges promise me that I'll be in a successful career and I can't get a job or I'm stuck at McD's, they better pay me back every cent that I've spent. I can't believe how people would find this ethical and I'm surprised that nothing is done about this.
If you look at tuition vs expense, most schools run a deficit, relying on state funding and endowments.
OH GOD WHYYYY!!! There is one person on this forum whose son found a good job after attending ITT Tech, but that can be done after attending a community college or any non-profit university. There are even regionally accredited for profits that are much cheaper than this school. There are three really bad things about ITT Tech:
1. They are way overpriced for a school that accepts just about anyone. They also don't have the best reputation. Their tuition is so high that federal loans and grants aren't enough to cover their bachelor's degree programs. ITT Tech often ends up loaning the student the rest at an astronomical interest rate.
2. Since ITT Tech is nationally accredited, its credits won't transfer to a lot, if not most, schools. Regionally accredited schools are often picky about accepting credits from nationally accredited schools. The one ethical thing ITT Tech does is let students know that their credits aren't likely to transfer. So, if you find out you don't like the school, you might be stuck or risk losing all of those expensive credits.
3. ITT Tech is currently under close scrutiny from the federal government. They may not go the way of Everest College, which is being forced to shut down campuses over fudging job placement data and not having their financials straight, but the possibility is there. Their parent company is in a better financial position than Everest's parent company. ITT Tech is being sued by the federal government for predatory lending. If the federal government decides to punish ITT Tech by pulling federal financial aid, they are done. Woes stack up for Carmel-based ITT Tech
What about ECPI "University"? I see TV commercials for them all the time, and it seems very similar to ITT.
Remember the old Groucho Marx saying: "I wouldn't want to belong to any club that would take me as a member?"
That's the problem with almost all for-profit schools. They have no, or very low standards for admission("Does he have a pulse?"). Which means that they can't teach to a very high level at all, which makes their reputations lousy, or results in a lot of students dropping out and not finishing -- which also makes their reputations lousy. Or students eventually do graduate but can't find jobs in the fields they want because employers justifiably think they've had a lousy education -- which most of the time they have.
Now ECPI is regionally accredited, which is a step up from many for-profit schools. But look at their web site and you'll note that nowhere do they say what tuition is. But theydo point out many, many times what federal loans and veteran's benefits are available, and urge you to call them for more info, which is to say so that they can get your contact information and I'd bet bombard you with a heavy sales pitch. Or many of them. These are really sales people, not college admission officers.
To me that's a red flag that the school is in it to make its shareholders happy, not its students. Which is the overriding issue with ALL for-profit schools. The investors and shareholders come first, and the kids in the classrooms (or laboratories or online) come last.
Whatever you want to learn, do it at a regionally accredited, not-for-profit community college or four-year college. If you have veteran's benefits use them there. Don't give your money -- or Uncle Sam's -- to someplace that will end up going out of business like ITT or Corinthian, while bleeding you dry and destroying your dreams.
EDIT: Sorry. I did find the place on their site where they say how much tuition is. (And they don't make it obvious, I'll say.) Tuition is $14,000+ per year for a full time student. You can go to a traditional not-for-profit school for that amount in many states, and the money will be far better spent I'd wager.
Last edited by citylove101; 09-15-2016 at 06:21 PM..
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