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What I meant by your doing is that you continued with a major that really isn't directly employable with just a BA/BS. It has nothing to do with the economy. The economy is very strong right now actually. As far as guidance for the 25 and under crowd--sorry but there are WAY more resources today to find jobs, find out about good majors, etc. When your parents went through college, there was no internet, personal computers were not common and were really only word processing. We actually filled out applications by hand and mailed them in . There is no excuse for not knowing what the job market is like for various fields...
Yes, I understood what you meant the first time. I agree that a psychology BA/BS is useless as a stand-alone degree, but I still insist that the economy is playing a major role in that. Psychology majors had a lot more doors open to them in the 90s then now. They could go into a lot of different areas which are now off limits to them. I disagree that the economy is doing well. If it was really that good, people wouldn't always be complaining about it. There are still a lot of people who are in the guttter who are either 1) unemployed, 2) underemployed or 3) so depressed that they just gave up completely.
When I was researching psychology, google was not able to tell me how long the job market would suck and that civil service positions would be nearly impossible to get in 2015. My parents were blue collar workers. A parent's input matters a lot because they provide very beneficial input early on in the game. If the overwhelming majority of adult figures tell a young teen that all they have to do is go to college and the rest will fall into place, then that child will believe that piece of advice even though it is very misguided.
Yes, I understood what you meant the first time. I agree that a psychology BA/BS is useless as a stand-alone degree, but I still insist that the economy is playing a major role in that. Psychology majors had a lot more doors open to them in the 90s then now. They could go into a lot of different areas which are now off limits to them. I disagree that the economy is doing well. If it was really that good, people wouldn't always be complaining about it. There are still a lot of people who are in the guttter who are either 1) unemployed, 2) underemployed or 3) so depressed that they just gave up completely.
When I was researching psychology, google was not able to tell me how long the job market would suck and that civil service positions would be nearly impossible to get in 2015. My parents were blue collar workers. A parent's input matters a lot because they provide very beneficial input early on in the game. If the overwhelming majority of adult figures tell a young teen that all they have to do is go to college and the rest will fall into place, then that child will believe that piece of advice even though it is very misguided.
Not really. What areas are "off limits" now that were not then?
In 2008 the Dow Jones was at 6500, the bottom of the market crash. Today it's in the 18,000 range, the highest it's ever been. Interest rates are still low, unemployment rates are low nationally--here is a link to historical unemployment rates United States Unemployment Rate 1920–2013 and today that rate is 5.4% nationally Bureau of Labor Statistics Data / The 90's average was 5.75%. Yes, people complain, but it's still a strong economy with a low unemployment rate.
Yes, I understood what you meant the first time. I agree that a psychology BA/BS is useless as a stand-alone degree, but I still insist that the economy is playing a major role in that. Psychology majors had a lot more doors open to them in the 90s then now. They could go into a lot of different areas which are now off limits to them. I disagree that the economy is doing well. If it was really that good, people wouldn't always be complaining about it. There are still a lot of people who are in the guttter who are either 1) unemployed, 2) underemployed or 3) so depressed that they just gave up completely.
When I was researching psychology, google was not able to tell me how long the job market would suck and that civil service positions would be nearly impossible to get in 2015. My parents were blue collar workers. A parent's input matters a lot because they provide very beneficial input early on in the game. If the overwhelming majority of adult figures tell a young teen that all they have to do is go to college and the rest will fall into place, then that child will believe that piece of advice even though it is very misguided.
I actually agree that there is a shift in the entry level jobs available now versus the 80s/90s. Yes some of that is the economy (and the overall shift towards service jobs) and some of that is due to the increase in the number of people getting college degrees. The death of well paying, unionized manufacturing jobs has pushed more people on the college track who in previous generations may not have gone that route. As a result, a lot of the entry level office type jobs are now harder to get.
Traditionally psychology was the degree to get if you wanted to go on to get a doctorate in something psych related or a counseling degree. It was/is also a ticket to an entry level job at a non-profit or health organization related to mental health or advocacy (domestic violence, suicide prevention, etc). It has not been uncommon to see people combine it with a minor in business or math and use that to springboard into marketing or market research.
I think the degree is still is a way to get into the corporate world but the route looks different. Instead of starting out in reception or as admin, I have seen multiple grads start out in retail but end up in the corporate offices of that company within a few years. Some companies are knows for promoting from "the floor" (like, say, Nordstrom's or Starbucks or Enterprise, etc) so it is not a bad idea to consider that your entry level opportunity and be prepared to work your way into a 9 to 5 office spot from there. The other thing to keep in mind is that you may start out with a bunch of people who may or may not have a degree but only the ones with degrees are eligible for promotions past a certain point. Also, many of these companies pay for graduate school. Do your research and keep that in mind!
Not really. What areas are "off limits" now that were not then?
In 2008 the Dow Jones was at 6500, the bottom of the market crash. Today it's in the 18,000 range, the highest it's ever been. Interest rates are still low, unemployment rates are low nationally--here is a link to historical unemployment rates United States Unemployment Rate 1920–2013 and today that rate is 5.4% nationally Bureau of Labor Statistics Data / The 90's average was 5.75%. Yes, people complain, but it's still a strong economy with a low unemployment rate.
All of the entry level jobs that employers no longer want to train for, as well as much stiffer competition over government jobs. I don't have how the Dow Jones is doing. I'm fully aware that the top corporations are doing fantastic now. But there are a lot of people struggling who are disenfranchised and struggling to find their place in the workforce.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinawina
I actually agree that there is a shift in the entry level jobs available now versus the 80s/90s. Yes some of that is the economy (and the overall shift towards service jobs) and some of that is due to the increase in the number of people getting college degrees. The death of well paying, unionized manufacturing jobs has pushed more people on the college track who in previous generations may not have gone that route. As a result, a lot of the entry level office type jobs are now harder to get.
Traditionally psychology was the degree to get if you wanted to go on to get a doctorate in something psych related or a counseling degree. It was/is also a ticket to an entry level job at a non-profit or health organization related to mental health or advocacy (domestic violence, suicide prevention, etc). It has not been uncommon to see people combine it with a minor in business or math and use that to springboard into marketing or market research.
I think the degree is still is a way to get into the corporate world but the route looks different. Instead of starting out in reception or as admin, I have seen multiple grads start out in retail but end up in the corporate offices of that company within a few years. Some companies are knows for promoting from "the floor" (like, say, Nordstrom's or Starbucks or Enterprise, etc) so it is not a bad idea to consider that your entry level opportunity and be prepared to work your way into a 9 to 5 office spot from there. The other thing to keep in mind is that you may start out with a bunch of people who may or may not have a degree but only the ones with degrees are eligible for promotions past a certain point. Also, many of these companies pay for graduate school. Do your research and keep that in mind!
When I was just starting undergrad, I knew that a masters degree in psychology would give you a leg up in the work force over a bachelors (no brainer really). But I did not think the degree would be entirely useless for work, since it can be your ticket into government jobs. I definitely will keep the tip about grad school in mind and certain employers paying for it! If an employer is willing to pay for grad school, that could be a useful springboard to getting a higher paying job.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwerty
A quick 20 second Google search shows 837 entry level jobs in Philly just on Careerbuilder alone....
All of the entry level jobs that employers no longer want to train for, as well as much stiffer competition over government jobs. I don't have how the Dow Jones is doing. I'm fully aware that the top corporations are doing fantastic now. But there are a lot of people struggling who are disenfranchised and struggling to find their place in the workforce.
When I was just starting undergrad, I knew that a masters degree in psychology would give you a leg up in the work force over a bachelors (no brainer really). But I did not think the degree would be entirely useless for work, since it can be your ticket into government jobs. I definitely will keep the tip about grad school in mind and certain employers paying for it! If an employer is willing to pay for grad school, that could be a useful springboard to getting a higher paying job.
And that proves what exactly?
It proves that you would rather make excuses vs doing the work to get a job. You are so focused on these "government jobs". Well, it's always been very, very difficult to get into a federal job unless you know someone.
People that are struggling and trying to find their place in the workforce...well, welcome to the real world. Unfortunately your generation as been brought up to be "passionate" about everything. Well, most people have a job and with that job there is generally very little passion for what they do. They might still like their job, most days, but very, very few people start out in a job that they just love and most people are lucky if they like their job. You seem to be very unfocused and can't even give a suggestion about what you want to do for a job other than "government job".
Your degree isn't useless. Getting a job in the psychology field with just a bachelors is pretty useless, however. The Masters isn't a "leg up" it's an entry level position in that area. Since you don't want to work in that area, it doesn't matter.
List 5 jobs you think you would like to have and we can go from there.
Ehh it is kind of hard to say. Whilst I do think job market is better for college grads than lets say 2008-2010, it is still difficult. Still you find many "entry- level" jobs that want 2-3 years of previous experience, and still you find many people going back to school for 2nd degrees in Accounting, Nursing or whatever because they could not find work with their first degree.
For myself I maintain that it is better now then when I graduated (2008) but it is far from perfect I would not approach the job market with the same enthusiasm that the articles that the OP linked do. And yes I am aware that choice of major, internships/lack of internships play a huge role in employability.
For myself I maintain that it is better now then when I graduated (2008) but it is far from perfect I would not approach the job market with the same enthusiasm that the articles that the OP linked do. And yes I am aware that choice of major, internships/lack of internships play a huge role in employability.
What I don't understand is why the journalists writing these articles are painting with such a broad brush. They make it seem as if pretty much any college graduate with decent grades can get meaningful employment in the current economy, and that simply is not the case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwerty
It proves that you would rather make excuses vs doing the work to get a job. You are so focused on these "government jobs". Well, it's always been very, very difficult to get into a federal job unless you know someone.
People that are struggling and trying to find their place in the workforce...well, welcome to the real world. Unfortunately your generation as been brought up to be "passionate" about everything. Well, most people have a job and with that job there is generally very little passion for what they do. They might still like their job, most days, but very, very few people start out in a job that they just love and most people are lucky if they like their job. You seem to be very unfocused and can't even give a suggestion about what you want to do for a job other than "government job".
Your degree isn't useless. Getting a job in the psychology field with just a bachelors is pretty useless, however. The Masters isn't a "leg up" it's an entry level position in that area. Since you don't want to work in that area, it doesn't matter.
List 5 jobs you think you would like to have and we can go from there.
I am not making excuses, I am providing explanations to the charges you are making against me. I am checking plenty of websites for jobs, but so far I have run into numerous dead ends. I am not focused on government jobs since I have already given up on them a while ago. I merely said that when I was almost finished with my degree (as well as fresh out of school), that's what I was looking into. But I already gave up on government jobs a while ago, so I don't know where you are getting the idea that I obsessed with them.
Listing 5 random jobs I have no personal experience with is like telling a blind guy to play darts. I can tell some filters, but pinpointing 5 specific jobs is a stretch at this point. Here are the current filters I apply to a new career:
1. Regular, set weekday schedule - I don't want a job with a 24/7 mentality. I want to be able to leave work at work. I don't want to work overnight or weekends (only exception would maybe be limited hours on saturday, but even then I really wouldn't want to work weekends)
2. Introvert friendly - I don't expect to be working in a log cabin in the woods 100 miles from the nearest sight of humanity. But I will say straight up that I'm not a people person and I don't always want to be bombarded with personal interaction. I worked at a mental institute for juvenile sex offenders and it was absolutely horrible. I work in a large retail store currently and I'm not feeling that long-term either. In order to advance in retail, you have to be a hardcore people person, something I am not. Just because you survive doesn't mean you will thrive. Less client face time is what I'm looking for here.
3. No credit score requirements - I have unpaid medical bills, problems paying student loans, etc. My credit score will not be good for the foreseeable future. And no, I did not run up my credit cards buying stupid things. There is no point in looking for a job that disqualifies you automatically based on this.
4. Not top heavy in math/science - I never was good at math or science. In hs, I took college preparatory level math classes but I had to REALLY work at it and often stay after class for extra help. It was not unusual for me to take 3x longer to grasp a concept that someone with more aptitude picked up right away. When I got into precalc/entry level calc, I completely fell apart and had to clue what was going on in the class (despite the fact I did extra problems out of the book and did go for extra help outside of class). In college, I had to withdraw from calculus 1 (for science majors) because I had something in the ballpark of a 40% as my grade. Science is also something I'm very weary of. If a job didn't have particularly hard science in it, I might be ok. But I never was particularly strong at science either. Anything along the lines of engineering, premed, physicians assistant, etc is out of the question.
5. Reasonable starting salary - I live in eastern pennsylvania and I will likely stay in pennsylvania for the forseable future (but probably a different area. I am thinking about moving to a smaller metro area like Eerie, the LV, Altoona, Pittsburgh etc. But I want to be making a BARE MINIMUM of 35k. That is not a ridiculous annual salary. Some other posters who live in major metro areas have pointed out that 35k is a very weak salary in their areas (and I fully agree with them that for a major metro area like NYC or LA it's nothing). For some of these major metro areas (which I'm not rushing to move to, that # probably has to be inflated to around 45k to account for the higher living costs).
6. Job is reasonable to most people - I already worked with juvenile sex offenders. That job had a HIGH TURNOVER RATE and it involved working with a DANGEROUS group of people. I want to avoid both. If the job/field has a high turnover rate, that's basically saying that most people think the terms of employment are unreasonable. The same thing goes for dangerous populations: I don't want to work with them. Forget about anything along the lines of mental health technician, probation officer, etc.
Here are some fieilds/jobs I have been loosely considering so far:
1. Information Technology/Cyber Security/Systems Admin/Related computer fields
2. Business Administration
3. X-ray technician
Here are some fieilds/jobs I have been loosely considering so far:
1. Information Technology/Cyber Security/Systems Admin/Related computer fields
2. Business Administration
3. X-ray technician
Business admin would be a) people-person oriented (managing people), and b) math-oriented.
X-ray tech: those types of jobs pay decently, but when you stop and think about it, they're also people-oriented. You're interacting with patients all day. You're the guy charged with putting them at ease, positioning them properly, explaining things. Just keep that in mind, as you consider your options. And I would think, that unless you're into the people aspect of it, it could get boring pretty fast. Can you imagine an entire lifetime of that? More food for thought.
Eastern PA? Isn't that where Princeton is, more or less? It would be great to get a job with them, whether office staff or IT tech, or something. And here's the thing about starting pay; it may be low when you sign on (if it's office staff), but after 6 months, if you do acceptable work, you get a raise. At the end of your first year, you get another (assuming a decent performance eval.). And there are set schedules for this; the amount isn't in the supervisor's discretion, in university settings. Another thing to keep in mind. In other words, they can't cheapskate you on your pay increments. You either deserve the next step up, or you don't.
Business admin would be a) people-person oriented (managing people), and b) math-oriented.
X-ray tech: those types of jobs pay decently, but when you stop and think about it, they're also people-oriented. You're interacting with patients all day. You're the guy charged with putting them at ease, positioning them properly, explaining things. Just keep that in mind, as you consider your options. And I would think, that unless you're into the people aspect of it, it could get boring pretty fast. Can you imagine an entire lifetime of that? More food for thought.
Eastern PA? Isn't that where Princeton is, more or less? It would be great to get a job with them, whether office staff or IT tech, or something. And here's the thing about starting pay; it may be low when you sign on (if it's office staff), but after 6 months, if you do acceptable work, you get a raise. At the end of your first year, you get another (assuming a decent performance eval.). And there are set schedules for this; the amount isn't in the supervisor's discretion, in university settings. Another thing to keep in mind. In other words, they can't cheapskate you on your pay increments. You either deserve the next step up, or you don't.
Well I didn't say P2P interaction was entirely off limits. I just want it to be more toned down than retail. In retail, there is a lot of "Why doesn't your store do things this way?", "Why don't you know where X item is in the store?", complaining over coupons, complaining over long lines, multiple screaming babies every day, etc. I would not cross business administration off the list right away, but I will admit I don't know too much about it.
I have seen some of the work that x-ray techs do in the hospital. They don't have to put up with the same level of bickering, complaining, etc that a cashier or sales associate deals with. They basically wheel patients around, tell a patient what position to be in, and take a picture of their bones. I could handle that if there isn't too much science involved.
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. There is no excuse for not knowing what the job market is like for various fields...
