Ways to bump my chances of getting accepted into a good veterinary school?
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I don't think you are going to convince the entire world to avoid the field of medicine or veterinary medicine, so that drumbeat is pointless.
I actually wouldn't advise the OP to avoid human medicine for financial reasons (were he or she truly interested in it); the debt-to-income ratio for current MD and DO grads right now still isn't too bad, and the loans can be paid off in a reasonable time frame provided the new graduate puts his or her mind to it. And there are quite a few ancillary medical fields that also aren't (yet) a road to debt peonage.
As someone who has a dog, customer service skills are very important for vet techs, veterinarians, and front office staff. I'm not trying to be rude, but you're going to have to work on your temperament and communication skills. People are trying to help, and your responses come across as unappreciative and rude.
Since you don't seem to be very receptive, no one can help you further, and this thread should probably be closed.
Honestly though, I feel for him. It's tough and annoying AF to hear this same discussion over and over and over again. I've been on this forum long enough to see how often certain majors and career paths are mocked, looked down upon, or just deem unworthy. A lot of effort is spent here in this corner of CD trying to persuade people against choosing any major that isn't engineering, nursing, or other STEM-related field. I'm sure the OP has heard the tired refrain of "major in STEM and get a job as an engineer so you can be rich" more than once (ignoring the irony that being a vet would technically be going into a STEM field). ETA: Besides the fact, the OP hasn't been that rude and there are lots of people in the animal care field (and in human medicine!) with horrible CS skills. Seems silly to judge the OP's CS skills just based on this thread.
K_Chris, I have a BA in creative writing and television/film writing and an MFA in creative writing. I also have quite a bit of student loan debt. Before applying to grad school and signing on to take on more debt, I had to have a real discussion with myself and I had to come to some brutal realizations:
-my debt would likely keep me from ever owning a home in most of the country. I'm currently fine with this since I enjoy traveling at the moment and don't want the anchor of home ownership (have already lived in 4 states in the past 10 years and may move again). In the future, I will likely scrounge up the money for an inexpensive fixer-upper in an area with a low COL like Baltimore/Pittsburgh/Detroit/insert_non_sexy_locale. I know my choice of career will likely never allow me to own a 5 bedroom, 4 bathroom house with a 3 car garage (not unless I end up being the next Stephen King, JK Rowling, or James Patterson). I'd be happy in a trailer home or 500sqft studio if it meant I could keep writing.
-my debt will realistically put off some family decisions. If I do choose to have kids, it likely won't be until my mid- to late-30's. Many reasons for this, but my loan debt does play a role. I'm fine with this since I've always been on the fence about having a family (did I mention that I enjoy traveling?), but I know others in my shoes who can't justify having kids while they have over $100K+ in loan debt. Personally, I wouldn't let it stop me but I can understand the concern. I grew up poor and know personally that a child won't suffer for lack of a private bedroom and bathroom, sleep-away camps, and extravagant gifts, but you also don't want to knowingly bring a child into a life of struggle. I know vets who managed to have successful careers and families despite high loan debts, though it does probably affect their day-to-day lives more than a family with low loan debts. Again, something to keep in mind.
-my debt will keep me from retiring early or even on time. That would be unfortunate BUT here is the KEY thing: I LOVE writing and if I could do it until the day I drop dead, I would. I would never retire from writing. Plenty of people gladly work past their 60's, not out of necessity, but out of love for what they do. As a vet, a may be a bit harder to do this, just because of the physical toll the job would take on you, but perhaps you could go into teaching or on an advisory board when that time comes. Point is, you'll spend the rest of your life working to pay off that loan debt. Honestly, this could be said of lots of people these days, regardless the field, but certain majors are considered to be more high risk. Being a vet isn't a notoriously low-paying field, not like social work or teaching or the arts, and you'll never lack for a job in the field if you get the right grades at the right school and aren't picky (this country will ALWAYS love its pets and its steaks!), so it's not all hopeless doom-and-gloom. Don't let the fear of debt keep you from pursuing this if this is what you REALLY want to do.
Personally, I think the OP's determination to not be dissuaded is good. If strangers on a forum were able to change his mind about this, then he wasn't serious about it in the first place. Folks on C-D just need to realize that, no matter how often this forum pushes this idea of "STEM major or bust" and discuss majors that have the best ROI or try to tell people to stop following dreams and pick a "real" major, people will continue to become vets and writers and actors and continue to go to school to pursue these dreams. All you can hope to do is hope they go in with as much information as possible.
So, to the OP, get the highest GPA possible, especially in your core classes, keep your undergrad school costs low, live cheaply and save as much as possible, do all the research and pick the right vet school (and again, take extra caution with the Caribbean schools), avoid private loans if possible, be willing and able to move to where the jobs are, and be realistic about what your life will look like with a high loan debt without letting it rule over your life and make our decisions for you.
To be honest, too much of this discussion has been focused on the topic of loan debt and less about your original question, though again, this often happens on this forum.
Last edited by eevee; 09-26-2017 at 06:11 PM..
Reason: ugh, apologies for all the typos. On a phone.
Honestly though, I feel for him. It's tough and annoying AF to hear this same discussion over and over and over again. I've been on this forum long enough to see how often certain majors and career paths are mocked, looked down upon, or just deem unworthy. A lot of effort is spent here in this corner of CD trying to persuade people against choosing any major that isn't engineering, nursing, or other STEM-related field. I'm sure the OP has heard the tired refrain of "major in STEM and get a job as an engineer so you can be rich" more than once (ignoring the irony that being a vet would technically be going into a STEM field).
K_Chris, I have a BA in creative writing and television/film writing and an MFA in creative writing. I also have quite a bit of student loan debt. Before applying to grad school and signing on to take on more debt, I had to have a real discussion with myself and I had to come to some brutal realizations:
-my debt would likely keep me from ever owning a home in most of the country. I'm currently fine with this since I enjoy traveling at the moment and don't want the anchor of home ownership (have already lived in 4 states in the past 10 years and may more again). In the future, I will likely scrounge up the money for an inexpensive fixer-upper in an area with a low COL like Baltimore/Pittsburgh/Detroit/insert_non_sexy_locale. I know my choice of career will likely never allow me to own a 5 bedroom, 4 bathroom house with a 3 car garage (not unless I end up being the next Stephen King, JK Rowling, or James Patterson).
-my debt will realistically put of some family decisions. If I do choose to have kids, it likely won't be until my mid- to late-30's. Many reasons for this, but my loan debt does play a role. I'm fine with this since I've always been on the fence about having a family (did I mention that I enjoy to travel?), but I know others in my shoes who can't justify having kids while they have over $100K+ in loan debt. Personally, I wouldn't let it stop me but I can understand the concern. I grew up poor and know personally that a child won't suffer for lack of a private bedroom and bathroom, sleep-away camps, and extravagant gifts, but you also don't want to knowingly bring a child into a life of struggle. I know vets who managed to have successful careers and families despite high loan debts, though it does probably affect their day-to-day lives more than a family with low loan debts. Again, something to keep in mind.
-my debt will keep me from retiring early or even on time. That would be unfortunate BUT here is the KEY thing: I LOVE writing and if I could do it until the day I drop dead, I would. I would never retire from writing. Plenty of people gladly work past their 60's, not out of necessity, but out of love for what they do. As a vet, a may be a bit harder to do this, just because of the physical toll the job would take on you, but perhaps you could go into teaching or on an advisory board when that time comes. Point is, you'll spend the rest of your life working to pay off that loan debt. Honestly, this could be said of lots of people these days, regardless the field, but certain majors are considered to be more high risk. Being a vet isn't a notoriously low-paying field, not like social work or teaching or the arts, and you'll never lack for a job in the field if you get the right grades at the right school and aren't picky (this country will ALWAYS love its pets and its steaks!), so it's not all hopeless doom-and-gloom. Don't let the fear of debt keep you from pursuing this if this is what you REALLY want to do.
Personally, I think the OP's determination to not be dissuaded is good. If strangers on a forum were able to change his mind about this, then he wasn't serious about it in the first place. Folks on C-D just need to realize that, no matter how often this forum pushes this idea of "STEM major or bust" and discuss majors that have the best ROI or try to tell people to stop following dreams and pick a "real" major, people will continue to become vets and writers and actors and continue to go to school to pursue these dreams. All you can hope to do is hope they go in with as much information as possible.
So, to the OP, get the highest GPA possible, especially in your core classes, keep your undergrad school costs low, live cheaply and save as much as possible, do all the research and pick the right vet school (and again, take extra caution with the Caribbean schools), avoid private loans if possible, be willing and able to move to where the jobs are, and be realistic about what your life will look like with a high loan debt.
Jesus, thank you for the discussion and reply. I like the answer, the realistic side effects of having a high debt (that NOBODY talked about but constantly bring up), and the advice at the end.
Honestly, people act like I've never worked a day in my life here. I worked tons of customer service jobs before, I can be the nicest person on earth on the job (this is what I am told by customers, mind you). This, however, is a goddamn forum and I have no obligation to be ultra polite to people constantly telling me to pick another job I'll hate for the rest of my natural life, which will probably shave a few years off in the long run. My own FAMILY tells me to find another job, for one racist reason is being a vet is a "white people profession". I say vet tech, now they complain that I should be a veterinarian. I say vet again and tell them I want this, they complain on how useless it is and demand to know why I, and I quote my aunt who got tons of agreement, "think you too good for simple work like construction or a mechanic like your uncles".
So I might seem pissed and for good reason, I already get enough BS from my blue collar side of the family since I was six.
BTW: They suggested doctor, if I just HAD to go into medicine, and this I also considered and declined. I honestly love animals far more than people. I'd rather spend an entire work day spaying and neutering dogs and cats than a few hours in surgery on someone who shot themselves in the leg somehow. More power to those who do, just not for me.
Last edited by K_Chris; 09-26-2017 at 06:07 PM..
Reason: BTW, part.
Jesus, thank you for the discussion and reply. I like the answer, the realistic side effects of having a high debt (that NOBODY talked about but constantly bring up), and the advice at the end.
Honestly, people act like I've never worked a day in my life here. I worked tons of customer service jobs before, I can be the nicest person on earth on the job (this is what I am told by customers, mind you). This, however, is a goddamn forum and I have no obligation to be ultra polite to people constantly telling me to pick another job I'll hate for the rest of my natural life, which will probably shave a few years off in the long run. My own FAMILY tells me to find another job, for one racist reason is being a vet is a "white people profession". I say vet tech, now they complain that I should be a veterinarian. I say vet again and tell them I want this, they complain on how useless it is and demand to know why I, and I quote my aunt who got tons of agreement, "think you too good for simple work like construction or a mechanic like your uncles".
So I might seem pissed and for good reason, I already get enough BS from my blue collar side of the family since I was six.
BTW: They suggested doctor, if I just HAD to go into medicine, and this I also considered and declined. I honestly love animals far more than people. I'd rather spend an entire work day spaying and neutering dogs and cats than a few hours in surgery on someone who shot themselves in the leg somehow. More power to those who do, just not for me.
I'm black and the child of West Indian immigrants--I get it. I've had this exact same argument and STILL have it to this day. The push-back is real and honestly worse that what you'd even experience here on a forum like this (so far, no one here has called me a "stupid fool" for getting a degree in writing, unlike my sister...). Just tell them that we need more minorities in so many fields and the idea of a "white people profession" is as archaic as the idea of a "woman's profession".
Added bonus (and yes, I'm putting it out there because use ALL the tools out there at your disposal): being a person of color in a underrepresented field may put you in line for additional scholarships. If you are a unrepresented minority, use it to your advantage because the veterinary field, like most job fields requiring an advanced degree, is still pretty white. Get thee a mentor who shares your race/ethnicity ASAP, if you can (check vet school alumni rosters, for example).
Honestly though, I feel for him. It's tough and annoying AF to hear this same discussion over and over and over again. I've been on this forum long enough to see how often certain majors and career paths are mocked, looked down upon, or just deem unworthy. A lot of effort is spent here in this corner of CD trying to persuade people against choosing any major that isn't engineering, nursing, or other STEM-related field. I'm sure the OP has heard the tired refrain of "major in STEM and get a job as an engineer so you can be rich" more than once (ignoring the irony that being a vet would technically be going into a STEM field). ETA: Besides the fact, the OP hasn't been that rude and there are lots of people in the animal care field (and in human medicine!) with horrible CS skills. Seems silly to judge the OP's CS skills just based on this thread.
K_Chris, I have a BA in creative writing and television/film writing and an MFA in creative writing. I also have quite a bit of student loan debt. Before applying to grad school and signing on to take on more debt, I had to have a real discussion with myself and I had to come to some brutal realizations:
-my debt would likely keep me from ever owning a home in most of the country. I'm currently fine with this since I enjoy traveling at the moment and don't want the anchor of home ownership (have already lived in 4 states in the past 10 years and may move again). In the future, I will likely scrounge up the money for an inexpensive fixer-upper in an area with a low COL like Baltimore/Pittsburgh/Detroit/insert_non_sexy_locale. I know my choice of career will likely never allow me to own a 5 bedroom, 4 bathroom house with a 3 car garage (not unless I end up being the next Stephen King, JK Rowling, or James Patterson). I'd be happy in a trailer home or 500sqft studio if it meant I could keep writing.
-my debt will realistically put off some family decisions. If I do choose to have kids, it likely won't be until my mid- to late-30's. Many reasons for this, but my loan debt does play a role. I'm fine with this since I've always been on the fence about having a family (did I mention that I enjoy traveling?), but I know others in my shoes who can't justify having kids while they have over $100K+ in loan debt. Personally, I wouldn't let it stop me but I can understand the concern. I grew up poor and know personally that a child won't suffer for lack of a private bedroom and bathroom, sleep-away camps, and extravagant gifts, but you also don't want to knowingly bring a child into a life of struggle. I know vets who managed to have successful careers and families despite high loan debts, though it does probably affect their day-to-day lives more than a family with low loan debts. Again, something to keep in mind.
-my debt will keep me from retiring early or even on time. That would be unfortunate BUT here is the KEY thing: I LOVE writing and if I could do it until the day I drop dead, I would. I would never retire from writing. Plenty of people gladly work past their 60's, not out of necessity, but out of love for what they do. As a vet, a may be a bit harder to do this, just because of the physical toll the job would take on you, but perhaps you could go into teaching or on an advisory board when that time comes. Point is, you'll spend the rest of your life working to pay off that loan debt. Honestly, this could be said of lots of people these days, regardless the field, but certain majors are considered to be more high risk. Being a vet isn't a notoriously low-paying field, not like social work or teaching or the arts, and you'll never lack for a job in the field if you get the right grades at the right school and aren't picky (this country will ALWAYS love its pets and its steaks!), so it's not all hopeless doom-and-gloom. Don't let the fear of debt keep you from pursuing this if this is what you REALLY want to do.
Personally, I think the OP's determination to not be dissuaded is good. If strangers on a forum were able to change his mind about this, then he wasn't serious about it in the first place. Folks on C-D just need to realize that, no matter how often this forum pushes this idea of "STEM major or bust" and discuss majors that have the best ROI or try to tell people to stop following dreams and pick a "real" major, people will continue to become vets and writers and actors and continue to go to school to pursue these dreams. All you can hope to do is hope they go in with as much information as possible.
So, to the OP, get the highest GPA possible, especially in your core classes, keep your undergrad school costs low, live cheaply and save as much as possible, do all the research and pick the right vet school (and again, take extra caution with the Caribbean schools), avoid private loans if possible, be willing and able to move to where the jobs are, and be realistic about what your life will look like with a high loan debt without letting it rule over your life and make our decisions for you.
To be honest, too much of this discussion has been focused on the topic of loan debt and less about your original question, though again, this often happens on this forum.
I didn't mock being a veterinarian at all or tell him to choose a different career, so there's no reason to be rude when someone is trying to help. The amount of anger he's displaying over the opinions of strangers, who aren't even being rude, and his family shows that he cares too much about other people's opinions. My bachelor's is in social science. I didn't stress over people telling me not to get a degree in that or psychology (that was my other choice). I was an independent adult. I could do whatever I wanted. There was no need to raise my blood pressure over what others thought I should study.
I'm pretty good at reading people based on their written communication skills. People who are rude in person are also often rude in writing. They also have a tendency to be unaware of their rudeness. Regardless, ettiquette in written communication is a part of customer service. I'll just leave it at that.
Jesus, thank you for the discussion and reply. I like the answer, the realistic side effects of having a high debt (that NOBODY talked about but constantly bring up), and the advice at the end.
Honestly, people act like I've never worked a day in my life here. I worked tons of customer service jobs before, I can be the nicest person on earth on the job (this is what I am told by customers, mind you). This, however, is a goddamn forum and I have no obligation to be ultra polite to people constantly telling me to pick another job I'll hate for the rest of my natural life, which will probably shave a few years off in the long run. My own FAMILY tells me to find another job, for one racist reason is being a vet is a "white people profession". I say vet tech, now they complain that I should be a veterinarian. I say vet again and tell them I want this, they complain on how useless it is and demand to know why I, and I quote my aunt who got tons of agreement, "think you too good for simple work like construction or a mechanic like your uncles".
So I might seem pissed and for good reason, I already get enough BS from my blue collar side of the family since I was six.
BTW: They suggested doctor, if I just HAD to go into medicine, and this I also considered and declined. I honestly love animals far more than people. I'd rather spend an entire work day spaying and neutering dogs and cats than a few hours in surgery on someone who shot themselves in the leg somehow. More power to those who do, just not for me.
You're not obligated to be polite on a forum, even though mods can shut you down. People are also not obligated to help you. Keep that in mind. This whole post is an overreaction. I'm black and grew up in a poor and abusive family. I can assure you that my family is a whole lot worse than yours. However, that doesn't give me the right to take it out on others.
You're not obligated to be polite on a forum, even though mods can shut you down. People are also not obligated to help you. Keep that in mind. This whole post is an overreaction. I'm black and grew up in a poor and abusive family. I can assure you that my family is a whole lot worse than yours. However, that doesn't give me the right to take it out on others.
You literally know nothing of me, my background, and who I am so I can assure you my family is a whole lot worse than yours. I literally only pointed out an admittedly minor issue we have and you take the high road and go 'well I have an abusive poor family, so I guess from this one thing that this is all yall fight over and therefor I had it worse' which, in case you were unaware, that doesn't and never will be a reasonable argument to make. You're "worse" could be someones dream come true, don't try that line with me. My worse is a friends decent. My brothers worse is my meh. My friends worse is something I dream of happening (getting a C on an PSEO course for her was a worse nightmare). Everyones reality and worse varies person by person, so your worse and my worse could be someone elses nightmare or dream. Get over yourself with that 'I had it worse' BS argument, it's useless and pretty uppity once you think realistically and realize your worse means nothing when there's billions of people on this planet and everyones deception of worse is different and varies, as everyone on this planet has a different personality and takes things differently, another reason why your argument is invalid.
But anyway, I'm telling YOU to figure out my name, my background, and my actual personality before you try and tell me who I am, how your background is worse than mine, and how I should behave at all times. Have a damn conversation with ME instead of doing the whole 'one post=20 years of life' BS method and trying to decipher my personality through a webpage, obviously unaware that it isn't enough remotely close to the true mindset of who I am. Until then, stay in your lane cause you really have no idea what angry me really is to actually (laughably) think that I was angry earlier. If anything, I was pretty damn irritated, but anger was not truly there.
I just read you got a degree in social sciences. That really doesn't mean you can read me well and I guess I should've told you I hide my real personality until I feel safe. But that also means you should know better than to use the 'guess i had it worse argument' AND you should know people have different personalities, ways of reacting to things, and basically a different life so trying to tell me how to acted based on two paragraphs is laughable and makes me question your degree. Seriously, you should know better. And if I DID care about their opinions, I'd be a completely different person and probably dating a black man in Chicago, going to school as a nurse like my moms sides been trying to push me to since I was a child. But obviously you knew that, since you can read me so well.
Last edited by K_Chris; 09-26-2017 at 10:38 PM..
Reason: Last paragraph.
The first problem will be getting through the required coursework at the undergraduate level. Pre-vet students take the same courses as pre-med introductory courses. They aren't easy and are designed to be "weed out" courses. This will include chem I and II, orgo chem I and II, physics, etc. All of them have labs maybe some required tutorial sessions as well. The required courses have nothing to do with animals. Evolution can be pretty tough too.
See how you do with these classes first.
Nothing wrong with starting out as a vet tech. I know a few who later went to and were admitted to vet school. If you do decide to work with large animals, zoos etc. make sure that you are on the athletic side. Not so much for handling the animals, but taking care of the big animals, whether as a volunteer or an assistant, it is very demanding physically.
You really do need stellar grades to be accepted into vet school and hopefully, you'll manage all of the required science and math classes. My cardiologist has a son (very smart) who could not get accepted in any American school after years of trying and ended up studying in the UK. If you are poor and have great grades and test scores, there is funding for medical school. I don't know if it's the same for vet school.
I would also apply for internships. Some of them offer housing.
You literally know nothing of me, my background, and who I am so I can assure you my family is a whole lot worse than yours. I literally only pointed out an admittedly minor issue we have and you take the high road and go 'well I have an abusive poor family, so I guess from this one thing that this is all yall fight over and therefor I had it worse' which, in case you were unaware, that doesn't and never will be a reasonable argument to make. You're "worse" could be someones dream come true, don't try that line with me. My worse is a friends decent. My brothers worse is my meh. My friends worse is something I dream of happening (getting a C on an PSEO course for her was a worse nightmare). Everyones reality and worse varies person by person, so your worse and my worse could be someone elses nightmare or dream. Get over yourself with that 'I had it worse' BS argument, it's useless and pretty uppity once you think realistically and realize your worse means nothing when there's billions of people on this planet and everyones deception of worse is different and varies, as everyone on this planet has a different personality and takes things differently, another reason why your argument is invalid.
But anyway, I'm telling YOU to figure out my name, my background, and my actual personality before you try and tell me who I am, how your background is worse than mine, and how I should behave at all times. Have a damn conversation with ME instead of doing the whole 'one post=20 years of life' BS method and trying to decipher my personality through a webpage, obviously unaware that it isn't enough remotely close to the true mindset of who I am. Until then, stay in your lane cause you really have no idea what angry me really is to actually (laughably) think that I was angry earlier. If anything, I was pretty damn irritated, but anger was not truly there.
I just read you got a degree in social sciences. That really doesn't mean you can read me well and I guess I should've told you I hide my real personality until I feel safe. But that also means you should know better than to use the 'guess i had it worse argument' AND you should know people have different personalities, ways of reacting to things, and basically a different life so trying to tell me how to acted based on two paragraphs is laughable and makes me question your degree. Seriously, you should know better. And if I DID care about their opinions, I'd be a completely different person and probably dating a black man in Chicago, going to school as a nurse like my moms sides been trying to push me to since I was a child. But obviously you knew that, since you can read me so well.
My BA is just one of my degrees. Anyway, this post just confirms my beliefs. "I hide my real personality until I feel safe." That says enough about emotional issues and is just what I thought. Thank you.
I won't go into details about my childhood, but I work with children who have been tortured, starved, raped, and nearly murdered by their caretakers. I also deal with caretakers who have murdered children. Some things are objectively worse. If you or anyone else would prefer that life, then I don't know what to say to that. Anyone who has a dream of being raped or tortured is psychologically disturbed.
Caring is not just doing what people want you to do. If you didn't care, then you wouldn't be bothered, period.
My BA is just one of my degrees. Anyway, this post just confirms my beliefs. "I hide my real personality until I feel safe." That says enough about emotional issues and is just what I thought. Thank you.
I won't go into details about my childhood, but I work with children who have been tortured, starved, raped, and nearly murdered by their caretakers. I also deal with caretakers who have murdered children. Some things are objectively worse. If you or anyone else would prefer that life, then I don't know what to say to that. Anyone who has a dream of being raped or tortured is psychologically disturbed.
Caring is not just doing what people want you to do. If you didn't care, then you wouldn't be bothered, period.
Im going to nicely tell you to back the hell away from me NOW. There several things I hate, trying to diagnose me over a ****ing screen is one.
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