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Very true that entrepreneurs can burn out, or anyone.
But some numbers can be very misleading.
The numbers that drop out of law are probably higher than engineering. Or to compare law vs plumbing, or heating/ac. Many articles on college degree payoffs paint the numbers with too broad of a brush. How many are actually happy in their careers?
I am not sure about happiness in careers as that is a personal thing and part of why I think people should do whatever they want.
As to law school drop outs vs engineering dropouts I do not have the numbers so I cannot say. Even so the vast majority of law schools have bar passage rates over 75% with many well over 90%. On top of this most law schools are extremely selective taking only the cream of the crop with the vast majority admitting less then half their applicants and many admitting less then 30%.
As to plumbing lawyers do make more money on average then people in this and other fields overall due to their education and the fact that attorneys have very well guarded, government protected monopolies on a wide variety of services.
Well if not college then what? Are you the person that is going to make it without an education? Saying that I am not one to push the diciplines that don't seem to pay but that so many seem to chace. We have plenty of English Majors, Sociology majors and other majors ending in ogy. Chances are you can do better on your own than to think those degrees are going to pay off. Chances are you can name 5 people that went that route and now have jobs that they could have got without the degree.
I bet you can name several people that went after a degree all to open a business that did not require the degree. I always wondered about that untill after completing my degree. Going to school teaches you how to think and accomplish something. Going thru all that gives you the staying power to succeed in everyday life. Maybe that is the real reason to complete a degree.
My kids some time let me know that they want to design computer games. One son told me that he could make a lot of money doing that. For him he wouldn't need to go to college. I told him to go for it. If he could do it, he could do it now. After a few months he realized that he needed more help and chances are would need to go to school.
I pass on the same advice. If you have a plan for your life that doesn't include an education and you see yourself succeeding, then go for it. Before you make that decision write out a plan and see if you can connect all the dots. If at any point you can't see how to progress from one point to another then you have just discovered that you need an education. Maybe you don't need a degree, but you do need some education to help you get from one point of your plan to another.
This is an interesting thread, I only just discovered it.
My two cents...
I hated Good Will Hunting It seemed really cliche to me. But, if it opened some people's minds to the fact that college isn't for everyone, then that's a good thing. I just hope it didn't make anyone think that a psychiatrist yelling at you was ethical practice
I have been teaching undergrads on and off for 13 years. I've seen it all, from those who wanted to be there more than anything to those who were there only because others told them they should. Most people were in the middle, and the majority were there because they believed it would definitely get them a better job and higher salary than no college degree. As the students got older, they got more interested in their classes and even starting thinking of grad school or law/med school in some cases. But for freshmen and sophomores, it was often about the financial incentive. I often felt my undergrad degree was pointless, but it was a path towards grad school for me, and that ended up being a hugely valuable experience.
I agree with everyone who has said so far that what young people often need to succeed is drive. If you know you want to make a living from your art and have a plan for doing that, go ahead and do it. You don't need a BFA. If culinary school is your dream and you want to own a small restaurant and have a plan for doing that, go ahead and do it. You don't need a BBA. And if you have a desire to learn more in a certain field, participate in the wealth of extracurriculars colleges have to offer, and look forward to more academic instruction, go to college.
Now, if only I could say that to my students who hate college and want to drop out without getting into trouble...
I obviously like this thread so I have another comment....
I have met quite a few college grads like the one depicted in the "Good Will Hunting" clip that are so dependent on spewing the popular textbook theories that they are blinded by these theories. That is, they have been college-trained to believe that, if it is written in the textbooks, it must be true and other options are not considered... They may be embarrassed or insecure about putting forth novel ideas for fear that their lack of expertise will be exposed and they will lose credibility. These type of grads seem to need a lot of direction in the workplace. I wonder if some types of college education are actually a detriment to the innovative, creative spirit of future business leaders.
I often had trouble in grad school when I took elective Humanities classes not in my department...we'd read an article that was very logically smart, but which really had no common sense grounding whatsoever. My reaction to these readings most of the time was 'this is BS, right?' But I was too afraid to say "I just really don't agree with anything in this article". When I teach now I really try to draw out the students whose reaction to the readings I assign is the same reaction I had to those BS readings, for exactly the reason you identify - they need to go into the workplace able to constructively and respectfully challenge and critique plans and projects. It's in everyone's best interest.
Fairly typical of the mainstream media IMO, always pushing college as a surefire way to higher earnings.
It quotes..
"Big-time payoff for professional degrees", like Law $748,865
and Medicine $977,601.
But how many lawyers drop out or burn out after a few years? That's a notoriously tough field. I think most with a law degree never get that lifetime payoff. Also, how much of that lifetime payoff goes to the top 2% of lawyers at big firms? The numbers are probably distorted in several ways.
Being a lawyer brings in a decent living but not riches beyond belief. Yeah, we hear of a few, Like John Edwards, making 7 or 8 figures but that is the minority.
Pay Scale of lawyers. Appears to be a life time average of $110,000 per year? That's a far cry from $748,865.00.
I ain't knocking it, both these are excellent livings but they don't live up to the hype in the article.
Well, maybe this article is including investments? The more money a person makes the more opportunity their money can make money. Tho, in this economy that theory falls flat.
Well, maybe this article is including investments? The more money a person makes the more opportunity their money can make money. Tho, in this economy that theory falls flat.
There probably are investments but I doubt they make that much.
I do think Americans are over-hyped on money a tad. We seem to equate self worth by how much money we have/make but is it real worth?
In the 80's and 90's I owned a business and I did real good, I made a lot of money and lived well. I owned a PA28-20R (that's an airplane, a Cherokee Arrow) that we took vacations around the country, and the Bahamas, in. I've stayed at the Grand Hotel for a week and usually took several short vacations over the course of a year.
I made double what I make today.
But hear me well, I would not go back to that job if you paid me quadruple to do it. I hated it.
I am a technician and I absolutely love what I do. I like the games, I like the puzzles but I detest the business side of being in business. I did well when I had my own business but the more it grew I was shoved away from doing what I liked to being a banker, an accountant, the head of HR and a part time lawyer. I hated it and as soon as the kids were gone I GOT OUT OF IT. I shocked the world because one day I just quit. I quit my own business.
So today I work for someone making half, less than half if you count benefits, but I don't envy the guy I work for. I've been there and his job is the last job I would want. Maybe that is why we get along so well together because I don't feel like an employee a bit.
Don't get me wrong, I like money and feel I still make a good living, had to go down from the Cherokee to a Cessna though, but money isn't everything as long as you have enough. Would really suck being poor though.
Don't get me wrong, I like money and feel I still make a good living, had to go down from the Cherokee to a Cessna though, but money isn't everything as long as you have enough. Would really suck being poor though.
Well, that's the thing- having to struggle (in a western sense) is a pain. I don't want a lot of things either. I have an economical car and 90% of the stuff I own is used. Craigslist is my friend lol. But, living month to month is no fun and it's hard not to walk that route on only one income; in MA at least.
For every person that has "made it" without a college degree, there are thousands that did not make it and are living on welfare, in prisons, low paying jobs and the like. It is a known fact that there are alot more broke people than people with money.
People who did not get a college degree can be broken into five main groups
Handicaped in some way that makes them unable to work
Burden to society through negative behavoirs or other bad choices but with the physical and mental ability to work
Stay at home parent by choice who had the aspiration to do so all their lives with a second person in the home to keep things going
Those who aspire to move up within a company
Entrepenuers
There are many, many thousands of people who work for companies like Wal-Mart, Sears, Ace Hardware, Best Buy, ect. who make a lot of money simply by taking those years they would have spent in college and allpying them to these companies. As general managers, they can expect to be paid $50,000-$100,000 a year. Heck, even a general manager of Taco Bell makes between $30,000-$35,000. While the last does not seem like must, if there are two people in the home making this type of income, they are living somewhat comfortably, as long as they are not trying to keep up with the Jones their entire lives. There is no same in choosing this path. They get paid to learn vs paying to learn.
Entrepenuers are a rare breed indeed. It takes just a couple of them to start a Wal-Mart or other company up. Each large company had them at some point. While some fail, other succeed. The flip side is the small business, although not seemingly a wise choice by many, they enjoy not answering to another boss, have a better turn around with their employees--since they can build stronger relationships with fewer numbers of employees--have better control of their marketing, and are happier with what they do.
High IQ individuals, such as Bill Gates, did not need college to succeed at what he does. Others do things, on a much smaller scale, that allows them the freedom to retire early or do whatever in life they choose to by using their natural skills or self acquired knowledge to get them what they need in life.
Lets look at the numbers. Only 76.3% of students graduate with a regular diploma. 33.3 of all students actually go to college. But there is a lot more to that. Few students actually have been given what they need in k-12 to actually go on to college. 23.7% do not finish school with a diploma. WikiAnswers - What percentage of high school graduates go to college 2008-2009 And only 35% are below $25,000 a year income bracket. This leaves 65% successful regardless if they have a college degree or not.
Quote:
Only a little more than a third (34%) of all students who entered school in the class of 2002 had the minimum credentials to apply to college when they left. African-American and Hispanic students are much less likely to leave high school with the skills necessary to apply to college than their white counterparts
This tells us that just .7% of students that do not go to college are actually qualified to do so and all the rest are not qualified to.
Accoding to this graph, if you are somewhere between having a diploma and no college degree, you will make between $35,000 and $45,000 on average. When you look at households, the percent just increases.
Quote:
If you define success as being able to afford the most expensive home in a suburban neighborhood, with two gas guzzling SUV's, ect, then you need to know that there are many out there who see the impracticality and impacts of this type of lifestyle and live quite comfortably within there joined income brackets.
You do not need a college degree to be successful. If you fall into group that would not finish high school, chances are they would not get into college in the first place. I think there is way too much pressure on everyone to go to college. If you press having a high school diploma first, that would pull a large percent of those making less than $25,000 per year up into the next bracket. Since the national average income is $44,389, it would not be that far fetched to say that they could get that on a high school dipolma.
My personal opinion is that a person should choose college classes to compliment their natural talent and skills to further themselvees in the areas they choose. There are many classes required for degrees that do not help that person in the career path they choose.
Being a lawyer brings in a decent living but not riches beyond belief. Yeah, we hear of a few, Like John Edwards, making 7 or 8 figures but that is the minority.
Pay Scale of lawyers. Appears to be a life time average of $110,000 per year? That's a far cry from $748,865.00.
Average MD?
I ain't knocking it, both these are excellent livings but they don't live up to the hype in the article.
I think you may be misunderstanding the article. The 748,865.00 is the estimated total additional income generated over a lifetime of practicing law not the amount garnered in a single year. In other words the average lawyer will make 758,865.00 more in her lifetime then the average high school grad.
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It seemed really cliche to me. But, if it opened some people's minds to the fact that college isn't for everyone, then that's a good thing. I just hope it didn't make anyone think that a psychiatrist yelling at you was ethical practice 
