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College doesn't technically guarantee success, but it sure is implied all through k-12 and while you're in college (why else would you be there, if you didn't think that it'll generate at least a modicum of success for you in the future?).
So what you're saying is, you don't know what the word "guarantee" means.
I think a lot of young students have bought into the idea that any College degree is an automatic ticket to a prosperous future. Then they get out into the "Real World" and find out that a degree in English, Social Science etc is going to get them a job that doesn't pay much better than their job flipping burgers did during their college years. This is true even more so in the economy of today. You have to know what skills you have that would make an employer want to hire you. After all if you don't know yourself why would you expect a prospective employer to know?
GL2
So what you're saying is, you don't know what the word "guarantee" means.
Call me skeptical, but I think everyone in the k-12 system is an accomplice in promoting "College as success". I think that's become the underlying focal point of highschools now. It's *so* heavily promoted, with *so* little alternatives to choose from. You take impressionable, naive highschoolers (with little experience in handling debt or making big decisions), and you present this constant, never ending drum beat, of college, college, college.
I remember thinking in 1996, it seemed like a huge gamble. You're paying $20 or $30 k a year for something. What's the economy going to look like in 5 or 10 years? I don't know. What's the economy based on now? I dont know. Are all these degrees worth it?
If anyone thinks college is a surefire ticket to success....go back to 1996, pick a degree at random, and see what would have happened in the next 10 years. It was a roll of the dice.
I bet 2 or 3 out of 10 would be successful (engineering, law, or a hard science).
5 out of 10 would be average to poor (english, social science, theater). Either working below their qualifications, or going on to the elusive masters/phd for more education.
2 out of 10 probably got wiped out from the real estate bubble or the economy. Or dropped out of college. And went another route. But I bet for only 2 or 3 out of 10, was college as successful as they said it would be.
Well yeah if you're dumping $20-30k/yr into college ed I'm sure you should pause for a minute to examine that gamble.
But here's something to consider: There are actually places you could go to school that cost well under $10k/yr that can provide an excellent education.
Call me skeptical, but I think everyone in the k-12 system is an accomplice in promoting "College as success".
"College guarantees success" is not a claim I ever heard.
"College is necessary for success" is a more common claim.
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I remember thinking in 1996, it seemed like a huge gamble. You're paying $20 or $30 k a year for something.
I paid $8k-$10k a year, 2001-2006.
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What's the economy going to look like in 5 or 10 years? I don't know. What's the economy based on now? I dont know. Are all these degrees worth it?
If anyone thinks college is a surefire ticket to success....go back to 1996, pick a degree at random, and see what would have happened in the next 10 years. It was a roll of the dice.
I bet 2 or 3 out of 10 would be successful (engineering, law, or a hard science).
5 out of 10 would be average to poor (english, social science, theater). Either working below their qualifications, or going on to the elusive masters/phd for more education.
2 out of 10 probably got wiped out from the real estate bubble or the economy. Or dropped out of college. And went another route. But I bet for only 2 or 3 out of 10, was college as successful as they said it would be.
I don't see the point in all this speculation.
Nobody can know the answer to your little scenario, incuding you. Discussing this is clearly not going to lead anywhere.
"College guarantees success" is not a claim I ever heard.
"College is necessary for success" is a more common claim.
I've heard it before. I specifically remember having a pyschology professor at my community college. During class he sort of mentioned, well why are you all here? To get a degree. Well, why do you want the degree, to be successful. To buy a house, to live the good life.
Why would college classes overflow, with students sitting on the floor, if they didn't think that college was going to give them success?
The teachers I had in highschool, they all promoted the idea of going to big name schools (with the $20-30 k a year price tags). I remember a highschool teacher I had. When she found out I was going to a community college, she was a little disappointed. You can do better. Isn't that the mantra every highschool student hears?
"You can do better"....code word for pricier, big name schools.
People don't stand back from the process. Every student is pushed to excel. Excel, why? To get better scores, to get better SAT scores. Why? To get into the elusive big name colleges.
The funny thing about community colleges at the time, I didnt even have to take the SAT, I never did. But then you can transfer community college credits into a 4 year school that does require the SAT. Makes a lot of sense.
The teachers I had in highschool, they all promoted the idea of going to big name schools (with the $20-30 k a year price tags). I remember a highschool teacher I had. When she found out I was going to a community college, she was a little disappointed. You can do better. Isn't that the mantra every highschool student hears?
"You can do better"....code word for pricier, big name schools.
Wow....just wow....never heard a high school teacher say anything like that before. Not to mention the fact that you are talking to a high school teacher. It's not like you have to go to Yale to get that job. LOL
I've heard it before. I specifically remember having a pyschology professor at my community college. During class he sort of mentioned, well why are you all here? To get a degree. Well, why do you want the degree, to be successful. To buy a house, to live the good life.
Why would college classes overflow, with students sitting on the floor, if they didn't think that college was going to give them success?
Nothing you said indicates your professor believes a degree guarantees success.
Like I said, your professor is claiming that a degree is needed to be successful.
I'm not saying his point of view is correct, but it is important to draw a distinction between these two perspectives.
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The teachers I had in highschool, they all promoted the idea of going to big name schools (with the $20-30 k a year price tags). I remember a highschool teacher I had. When she found out I was going to a community college, she was a little disappointed. You can do better. Isn't that the mantra every highschool student hears?
Where I live the big name colleges are mostly state universities that cost less than $10k per year.
Where I went to high school, you couldn't graduate unless you were accepted to a 4-year degree program.
The people I know didn't go to $20k or $30k per year schools unless they were wealthy, or were awarded a merit scholarship.
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"You can do better"....code word for pricier, big name schools.
"You can do better" was a code word for a 4-year school and a Bachelor's degree. It had nothing to do with tuition cost.
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People don't stand back from the process. Every student is pushed to excel. Excel, why? To get better scores, to get better SAT scores. Why? To get into the elusive big name colleges.
Your last "why" -
People don't take the SAT to get into big-name colleges. They just take the SAT to get into college, period.
Did John23 go to school beyond community college? All over the Internet and particularly on this forum, I read posts from people trying to downplay the credibility of a four-year college education. Very rarely is it the case that these individuals went to college or followed through and obtained a four-year degree. I think a lot of them like to come on these forums to boast about how they beat the system; that they got a decent job without going to a 4 year school (C-D user nicet4 is renowned for this type of behavior). They'll use their own unique experience to discredit the entire system, perhaps to extinguish their own insecurities about not having a degree.
If John23 never went to school beyond a two-year community college, it would certainly make more sense to me why he talks down about four-year colleges.
"You can do better"....code word for pricier, big name schools.
"You can do better" - code for "Why didn't you do your job in high school, get good grades, and get a scholarship to a halfway decent school."
I wasn't in the top 10% in my class (close but not there) and I in no way a minority, but I worked my BUTT off to take the highest level of courses available to me, the highest SAT score possible (self studying, none of those expensive prep courses), significant leadership roles, and tons of volunteer work because I treated high school like a job- instead of "saving" for retirement, I was banking for a scholarship. I got an 80% merit scholarship for a top 30 university that costs $50,000 a year. Other friends who did similarly went to UGA or GA Tech for free- for me, what was left of tuition to pay was worth it to be in an academic situation that suited me.
There's no excuse to pay full tuition unless you slacked off and then proceeded to make poor choices about what college you attended. There is pretty much no reason to go to community college due to lack of funds SOMEWHERE. I didn't go to the best college I could get into but the one where I could get the most money and had scholarship portability for study abroad. Even friends of mine with lower GPAs and lower SAT scores got significant money to out of state schools because they worked hard in other ways.
A degree doesn't mean success but it will help get your foot in the door.
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