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I've posted a lot on these boards about education. I think a Bachelors degree is *THE* Scam going on for Generation x, and y. Forget violent video games, obesity, texting, etc. That's nothing when you think about how wide and long lasting this college scam has turned into.
I think it's worst than a new highschool degree, because it keeps you stunted for so long. Previous generations of students never spent so long in mediocrity.
Previous generations of highschool grads could get a move on life earlier. The bar was so low, they learned indepedence, living on their own, self sufficiency. When previous generations were making their first mortgage payment, or thinking of getting married, this generation is filling out more student loan forms (making bankers even richer).
Paying 300% more than you did in 1980 to get in the door as a receptionist is a MONSTER scam. Shows you're in the looney toon room in k-12. Shows the opposite is true. People had 300% more common sense in 1980. They weren't fooled into thinking that they needed a $50,000 piece of paper to do low level work.
I get the impression a cover has been used on this generation. Just to hold them in place. They don't want 15-30 year olds wandering off too far in this country. They use to be able to be farmers, manufacturing workers, welders. Or get more real world experience, as a secretatary. But now everyone is just waiting...waiting....waiting for this magical piece of paper, that tells you what you can do, what use to be commonplace 30 years ago!
Scam or not, your odds of landing a decent job without a college degree is even lower.
People are living longer than ever, so in the grand scheme of things the 4 years of college is not a tremendous sacrifice. Colleges also provide other indirect opportunities, such as dating and finding spouses with similar intellectual curiosity.
Many physicians for instance retire in their 70s, not because they have to, but because they'd be bored out of their minds in retirement. How many blue collar jobs let you do that?
About half of my med school class married other physicians either during medical school, in residency or later in practice. I promise you, less than 1% of Americans have the earning power of a dual physician household. College remains the only gateway for professional careers.
The bachelors degree is the middle class HS diploma. The fact that the percentage of individuals with a bachelors is stagnant just suggests that our middle class is shrinking.
I would be interested in seeing the percentages if you broke down the percentages based on the highest degree obtained by the parents. I rarely see someone whose parents have degrees without a degree of their own.
Even though the average percentage of attainment for a bachelors degree or more was 24.2%, 31 states had percentages lower then this and 9 states had percentages Less then 20%. The lowest being West Virginia at 14.8%.
The state with the lowest % of High School graduates was Kentucky with 74.1%.
I've posted a lot on these boards about education. I think a Bachelors degree is *THE* Scam going on for Generation x, and y. Forget violent video games, obesity, texting, etc. That's nothing when you think about how wide and long lasting this college scam has turned into.
I think it's worst than a new highschool degree, because it keeps you stunted for so long. Previous generations of students never spent so long in mediocrity.
Previous generations of highschool grads could get a move on life earlier. The bar was so low, they learned indepedence, living on their own, self sufficiency. When previous generations were making their first mortgage payment, or thinking of getting married, this generation is filling out more student loan forms (making bankers even richer).
Paying 300% more than you did in 1980 to get in the door as a receptionist is a MONSTER scam. Shows you're in the looney toon room in k-12. Shows the opposite is true. People had 300% more common sense in 1980. They weren't fooled into thinking that they needed a $50,000 piece of paper to do low level work.
I get the impression a cover has been used on this generation. Just to hold them in place. They don't want 15-30 year olds wandering off too far in this country. They use to be able to be farmers, manufacturing workers, welders. Or get more real world experience, as a secretatary. But now everyone is just waiting...waiting....waiting for this magical piece of paper, that tells you what you can do, what use to be commonplace 30 years ago!
I don't necessarily disagree with your premise, but there is one contention I do have: the 'scam' does not stem from schools themselves. Yes, they recruit, hold college fairs at high schools (this is generally by promotion of the particular high school), advertise, etc. Yes, some schools (not all) will make promises about where an education received at their institution can take you.
But, no college/university outside of the for-profit lot twist your arm into applying/attending. Sure, they want you application money, but outside of that you are on your own.
The real culprits, the scammers, are the College Board (who administer the SATs, ACTs, among others), Kaplan (although mostly for grad school) and other test prep/admissions consulting services. Students are going to apply to colleges anyways, whether a college degree is the new HS diploma or not. Only the lowest of the low will suffer with enrollment if the perception of college ever changes (towards the negative).
Sure, colleges/universities like the extra money they receive when lots of students apply (application fee), but the active promotion of college has almost single handily been done by the College Board. Think about it: The College Board is a business, not a charity. As a for-profit business, their aim is to make money. The only way to make money is to keep the students coming in to use their services.
As long as the public believes that college is the new HS diploma, that a college degree is necessary to gain even menial employment, people will continue to line up in droves with money in hand.
The only 'enemy' for Gen X are the Baby Boomers. Gen Y are the children of the Boomers, so they tend to be viewed in a more favorable light. Gen X is also the most educated generation so far, so they say. The majority of Gen Xers also received their college education long before college was "cool", an "entitlement", or even a "scam".
On the other hand, there are the employers. Some jobs always required a college degree, and always will. But now there are many jobs that require a degree...in anything...to gain employment. This is primarily an economic maneuver. Simply put, it costs a business money to train new employees. Back in the day this was no big deal since it was common for someone to remain with an employer for the entirety of their career. It was seen as an investment.
Now, employers are less willing to spend the time and money training new hires (although it is inevitable in many cases since you will be taught to do things their way). Partially because it costs them money, and partially because these days the average employee is expected change careers fairly often. During the Boomers' time, you were considered to not have any guts if you did not tough it out and stick with your employer. These days, you are considered to have no brains if don't actively seek out better positions.
Once again this is a function of employers, not colleges.
No one is forcing anyone to go to college. Currently, the percentage of employment requiring a college degree is at what, 27%. Granted that number is expected to go up to 75% by 2050, but it is more or less a numbers game. The more people with degrees, the more jobs that require degrees will need to be available.
I really won't worry about it until the day comes when a four-year degree is a requirement for employment at McDonald's.
I don't necessarily disagree with your premise, but there is one contention I do have: the 'scam' does not stem from schools themselves. Yes, they recruit, hold college fairs at high schools (this is generally by promotion of the particular high school), advertise, etc.
But, no college/university outside of the for-profit lot twist your arm into applying/attending. Sure, they want you application money, but outside of that you are on your own.
The real culprits, the scammers, are the College Board (who administer the SATs, ACTs, among others), Kaplan (although mostly for grad school) and other test prep/admissions consulting services. Students are going to apply to colleges anyways, whether a college degree is the new HS diploma or not. Only the lowest of the low will suffer with enrollment if the perception of college ever changes (towards the negative).
On the other hand, there are the employers. Some jobs always required a college degree, and always will. But now there are many jobs that require a degree...in anything...to gain employment. This is primarily an economic maneuver. Simply put, it costs a business money to train new employees. Back in the day this was no big deal since it was common for someone to remain with an employer for the entirety of their career. It was seen as an investment.
Now, employers are less willing to spend the time and money training new hires (although it is inevitable in many cases since you will be taught to do things their way). Partially because it costs them money, and partially because these days the average employee is expected change careers fairly often. During the Boomers' time, you were considered to not have any guts if you did not tough it out and stick with your employer. These days, you are considered to have no brains if don't actively seek out better positions.
Once again this is a function of employers, not colleges.
No one is forcing anyone to go to college. Currently, the percentage of employment requiring a college degree is at what, 27%. Granted that number is expected to go up to 75% by 2050, but it is more or less a numbers game. The more people with degrees, the more jobs that require degrees will need to be available.
I really won't worry about it until the day comes when a four-year degree is a requirement for employment at McDonald's.
-"No one twists your arm into applying for college. No one forces anyone to go to college." They really do. They've set the game up to where college is the primary alternative (or the only alternative) for you.
Community college? That's the 13th grade. That's below your potential. Technical, vocational schools are "below your potential". "They" (the powers that be) have set up k-12, not necessarily as a learning process. But as a place to "reach your potential". "Aim high". "Do your best".
Think of all the hazy terms you hear in k-12. These fuzzy idealistic notions. The primary place that you can reach the fuzzy idealistic notions taught in k-12, is at a 4 year college. That's what funnels you into the scams of the college board, SAT testing, etc. Also, I think the system is set up to get you, way below the age of adult reasoning. At what age do you have to think about college now, 14, 15? Much easier to convince a naive 15 or 16 year old to "go to college", than a more mature, responsible, critically thinking, independently thinking 18 or 19 year old. They twist the arm of 1/2 informed, somewhat naive 15 or 16 year olds.
Plus, there's teacher pressure, peer pressure. Anecdotal evidence (teachers say...we all went to college, there for you should go). That's why I'm so critical of the process. They've carefully eliminated cheaper or better alternatives. And they pressure you early, really below the age of adult reasoning. 15 or 16 year olds don't fully know caveat emptor. Or "buyer beware". Most 15 or 16 year olds have barely handled credit card debt. All these students that have barely handled debt are suddenly asked to take on $30 or $60 k in debt? To get a job at Walmart or McDonalds? This is the scam.
-There has been a change in employment, but does it have to cost 400% more than it did in 1980? Employment has always changed, but I don't think it's ever been as expensive as it is now, for the average person to keep up with it. It's going to cost you $40,000 for a bachelors, just to get a job at McDonalds? Why?
The burgers have gone down in quality. There's more automation. Wages have stagnated for 20-25 years? Why are we paying so much more now, to do so much less than 25 or 30 years ago? That's the question and the scam.
Why are people paying so much for college when there is so much automation in the world? It seems like gen y (and x) are paying for the privilege of simply showing up, and trying to be a worker in the world.
I think this bachelors thing has been used as a holding cell for those 15-25/28. Technology in the last 20 years has sped everything up. Think about how much the average person types now with the internet, vs 25, 30 years ago when you only typed with a type writer. Plus the internet and this free flow of information. Everyone now can be a writer, blogger, computer expert. I get this idea, that people now have a better chance of "breaking out of the box". And they don't want that. They clamp down. They drown you in testing in k-12. They drown you in busywork. They saturate the market with college degrees. They do just about all they can to stop 15-25 year olds in this country from fully functioning, without the government or school interfering.
Why isn't k-12 built around "seeking out better positions" in employment? That should be the emphasis, because attitudes have changed since the boomers days.
I can not say that a bachelor's degree is the new high school diploma, but it is more accessible for anyone to earn especially with these online universities.
I never listened to such talk. I always wanted the highest degree that I could get because I wanted to be highly educated. I required high academic achievement for its intrinsic value. This was important to my sense of self-worth. I wanted to be an expert in some field and respected as such. I wanted to be one of few, not one of many. That way, I could live the way I wanted, not the only way I could. I wanted to work where I pleased, not work where I could. I wanted to live where I wanted, not where I could. More education is always better IMO.
Who the hell cares whether society in some objective fashion deems "the bachelors degree as the new high school degree"? Not me. I set my own high standards.
It's funny to hear people say colleges dont' twist your arm to attend. Yeah society doesn't twist my arm to take a shower everyday and look presentable. But I wouldn't have a very easy time finding a job with a food ridden beard, the same pair of underwear for the last two weeks. Society doens't force us to use credit or credit cards to live. But most people wouldn't be able to afford the basic staples of life without credit. Hell no one forces your arm to take out a mortgage to buy a house. No one forces your arm to come up with first and last month's rent when renting. But try to do both in this economy and you won't get very far. What a stupid, childish, intellectually dishonest argument by you.
College nowadays is a racket propped up by government money. It's just mind boggling how many graduates colleges nowadays are pumping out into the economy and the lack of jobs that exist. I mean think about how many new jobs are created or have been created in the last 30 years and then think about how many college kids are graduating and entering the workforce. LOL.....and we wonder why the service sector has been the fastest growing segment of the economy. You know how many out of work engineers were working at home dept back in the late 90s? 10 years later NOTHING has changed. The US economy has been deteriorating for 50 years and despite a few debt driven bubbles of pseudo prosperity. But don't worry once we get that republican or democrat back in office everything is going to change for the better!
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