Aviation manufacturing job market?

[LHS79]

Originally Posted by Kfare

This is great info, thank you all very much for your input! He needs to check and make sure his clearance is still active as it's been 5 years since leaving the Navy. Sounds like it'll be one of the most important things to ensure as he hits the pavement.

Oops- usually it is active for only 2 years when you leave the service.

Employers used to hire you without a clearance years ago if you were the right person for the job-and they could wait a few months for the clearance to get approved.

Now it can take a year or more for a TS to get approved (or not) and employers are not going to risk that on a new employee.

[buenos]

Originally Posted by LHS79

Usually folks with TOP SECRET clearances are picked up quickly no matter what your experience is, not sure about the Secret level but an ACTIVE clearance is a huge advantage.

That does not sound meritocratic. Also what people don't understand about the purpose of meritocracy: when we are at war, do you want our airplanes to fall out of the sky by themselves or not? you cannot train random people to be successful designers or engineers. It is rocket science.

Originally Posted by LHS79

Oops- usually it is active for only 2 years when you leave the service.

Employers used to hire you without a clearance years ago if you were the right person for the job-and they could wait a few months for the clearance to get approved.

Now it can take a year or more for a TS to get approved (or not) and employers are not going to risk that on a new employee.

Why is it required for every engineering job to have a clearance?
They could separate the development teams into 2 groups, a small cleared group to deal with the innovative features or new algorithms, the other larger group to do standard technical implementation (electronics, mechanical design, project schedules, manufacturing...). For example most electronics circuits across various industries (military, industrial, commercial, consumer) are all the same, except one has 2 USB ports another has 3. Everyone knows that the same commercially available FPGAs and processors are put into missiles as into self driving cars or standard test instruments or corporate network routers. It might have been different 50 years ago before the global supply chain was established. This whole clearance system should be reconsidered, it has reached a bottleneck.

[TCHP]

I would not say a clearance is an end all be all opening doors qualify with nothing else considered, but, it certainly depends on the level and segment of the industry you are looking at. Clerical and Admin, a clearance and ability to understand all the various acronyms being used may be all that matters. Specific requirements like GPS based Defensive Allocation Analysis, Engineering positions, Software and Cyber Security you absolutely will need to have education, training, and be capable. Like any business, defense industries hire people logically able to do the job. You have to demonstrate capability or education. Given the choice between two engineers with degrees and similar training, a defense company will select the one with the clearance first. If you have something specialized, then the contractor may be motivated to get the clearance for you.

I have been looking at this market for decades. I have seen a slight shift in the industry lately where in the past, postings may have said "only clearances of XYZ will be considered" to what we see today where a posting may say "applicants must be able to obtain and maintain a clearance". Like it or not, that is about as open as it will ever get. If you have skills they want, they will get you the clearance. If your average, just getting started, or have no specific background, it will be tough to get in.

To get an understanding of some of the requirements around all this without even getting into the clearance world, I recommend you look in to a few basic requirements such as ITAR, DFARS, and NIST. These three areas alone have reams of documents outlining requirements that defense contractors will have to meet simply to do business with defense primaries and these three ares impact all civilian business doing business with defense agencies, even if no one in the civilian company has access to anything classified at all.

[LHS79]

I have heard it costs a company a year's salary of the person who gets hired to get a TS Clearance. That is what the Gov't charges to get the clearance.

And it can take up to a year to get it approved- not many companies are going to risk the cost and time when the clearance may not even be approved due to past drug use or other issues (financial mainly).

And without an active clearance the person will not be doing the work he or she was hired for.

[TCHP]

Possibly. I've never had one, so I can't positively say. I've heard its long and expensive, but what exactly is long and expensive consist of? I'd suspect there are ways to fast track this if its a critical need. I'd also suspect if you are hired for one of these types of position pending getting clearance, it will probably include an employment contract to secure their investment.

Of course, the alternative is to join a military service, get your clearance and training, then apply to civilian contractors when you get out. I'm way past the time I could do that, and I suspect other may be as well, so these may be industries we never break into. Alternatively, there are some companies that stand in both worlds and could pick you up for civilian projects and migrate you to defense projects after your clearance is complete.

Secret clearances are absolutely a way to limit access. That is why they exist. It wasn't developed to eliminate capable people and create a work culture devoid of merit so much as to enhance those engaged in protecting the nation. The same can be said of some OSHA requirements in some other industries. The difference is defense clearances can't simply be bought by private individuals and non-associated companies like OSHA certifications can be bought and there is good reason for that. Without the clearance process, our enemies would simply pay for the clearance process and put their agents in place to understand all the intricacies of all our systems, soft or hard. While I can't break through this wall, I respect the reason why its difficult to do so.

[ryanek9freak]

I just had to re-do my SF-86 (Secret clearance application), I already have one but the government makes you re-do the investigation every 10 years. It took over a year to be fully adjudicated, and that's just a basic secret. I can't imagine what Top secret and TS-SCi/SSBI involves. I think they want to interview your 1st grade teacher.....