08-15-2006, 09:15 AM
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I'm planning to move to Granby this Winter. Does anyone know if all of the pines will be dead by next Summer or how long it will take? I've heard Grand Lake is being decimated.
08-17-2006, 10:19 AM
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Beetle Kill
I was in Granby and Grand Lake last week (8/11) and it was awful. Entire mountainsides are brown. If they get a fire, entire mountains will be toast. The forest service has NOTHING. The National Park has done some spraying and thinning of dead trees. One of the local TV stations in Denver has done a good story on the problem, but they haven't posted the story on their web site yet.
01-14-2008, 12:06 PM
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Truth is, the best thing to regenerate the lodgepole forests is if they just burned. That's how lodgepoles reseed--when fire heats the trees' cones enough, they open and release their seed. The problem, of course, is we "way-smart" humans have built all kinds of expensive **** in those forests that we don't want burned up. Well, sooner of later, those lodgepole forests will burn, and likely roast anything that we have built in them. Score: Mother Nature - 1; Humans - 0. She always bats last.
01-17-2008, 08:10 AM
Location: Denver
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Wondering where they took the picture in the article from because when we were over there last summer I don't recall seeing any green trees. It was solid dead ones. Horrible to see. Really shocking.
Here's a story that was in our local Longmont paper the other day:
The Longmont Times-Call (http://www.timescall.com/News_Story.asp?id=5850 - broken link)
01-17-2008, 08:35 AM
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People shouldn't kid themselves about the problem being limited to the lodgepoles, either. Colorado's overmature, overcrowded ponderosa forests are being hammered, too. The Hayman and Missionary Ridge fires were just a preview of coming attractions in the ponderosa forests. What people don't "get" is that when one of these "mega-fires" gets going in a sea of dead and dying timber, the only thing that can be done is to get out of the way . It's gonna do what it's gonna do. Budgetarily, there is very little that the Forest Service can do to "treat" infected forests as a prevention measure. The most effective treatment is logging out the diseased trees, but there is huge (and often justified) opposition to that, due to road-building and other effects of such logging. Many of the forests are in such bad shape that prescribed burning runs the real risk of igniting an uncontrollable fire. We have reached the point that Mother Nature is just going to have to "fix" a century-plus of human fire suppression, and beetles and fire are going to be her tool of choice.
Last edited by jazzlover; 01-17-2008 at 08:47 AM ..
01-17-2008, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
jkcoop
Wondering where they took the picture in the article from because when we were over there last summer I don't recall seeing any green trees. It was solid dead ones. Horrible to see. Really shocking.
Here's a story that was in our local Longmont paper the other day:
The Longmont Times-Call (http://www.timescall.com/News_Story.asp?id=5850 - broken link)
from the above referenced article: "About 8 percent of forest landscape in Colorado are lodgepoles, said Ingrid Aguayo, forest entimologist with the Colorado State Forest Service. Aguayo said the epidemic doesn’t mean it’s the end for lodgepoles, but rather it’s part of the regeneration process. “A lot of people think this is the end of the forest, but as an entimologist, I see it as the beginning,” she said, pointing out
seedlings about five inches tall are already sprouting in parts where the beetles have run their course (emphasis added). “It’s not going to be a moon landscape like a lot of people think,” she said."
So what this forest expert is saying is that you don't necessarily need a fire in massive kill areas for forest regeneration.
I was in and around Buena Vista last summer and the infestation didn't really look that bad in Chaffee county. I know that some of the more upscale housing developments there (like Game Trail and Eagles Roost, which border NF lands) began a beetle treatment plan to protect their area. The trees looked just fine.
01-17-2008, 10:59 AM
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In most areas of Colorado, lodgepoles are not a "climax" forest. They are "pioneers" that colonize a disturbed area. Many Colorado lodgepole forests are former spruce-fir forests that were logged off in the 1870's and 1880's (as are a lot of Colorado's current aspen forests). In those particular forests, spruce and fir will eventually recolonize and choke the lodgepole out over a few centuries. That is, unless a beetle infestation and/or fire burn the lodgepoles out. Then the whole process starts over again. Some lodgepole forests actually are a climax forest: the lodgepole grow, get overcrowded, get diseased, burn, and reseed--starting the cycle again. A lot of the lodgepole forests in Colorado that are of this type are the ones that are the "sickest" right now. Lodgepoles have serrotenous cones (that is, very tightly closed pitchy cones). For them to release their seed, the cone temperature must reach something like 160 degrees. So, it is fire that makes a lodegpole a self-reseeding tree. The closely spaced, "doghair" nature of a mature lodgepole forest also makes it prone to fire crawling up the "fuel ladder" of the tree and allowing the fire to "crown out" into a large fire--burning up all the trees, but releasing those seeds.
Conversely, a healthy ponderosa forest with wider spaced trees is less likely to have a crown fire. Small fires that burn in them tend to stay on the ground, burning up build-ups of ground fuels. A mature ponderosa's bark is also fire-resistant, so a normal fire in a healthy ponderosa forest allows the larger trees to survive and grow--and the fire does not tend to climb into the crown of the forest. A century-plus of fire prevention in these forests, though, has allowed to many small trees to crowd together, allowed too much ground fuel to build up, and weakened the larger trees. That makes the whole unhealthy forest more susceptible to pine beetles, and also makes huge "crown" fires more likely. These not only destroy ALL of the trees; they may burn hot enough to sterilize the soil. Some of Colorado's overgrown ponderosa forests may take many centuries to return when they burn this time because of soil sterilization. It is in the ponderosa forests where logging, treatment, and prescribed burns should be happening to prevent those kinds of devastating crown fires--rather than fussing over the lodgepole forests. The lodgepole forests are goners, anyway, and big fires in them are their way of naturally regenerating. To the people that built their trophy house in a tinder box that nature designed to burn, well, it's kind of like Yosemite Sam lighting a match in a shed full of dynamite and gasoline--**** happens.
By the way, regarding multitrak's post about forests around Buena Vista. Those lodgepole forests have not been as heavily infected--yet. The beetle is there, though, and the infestations have increased significantly in the last year or so (based on my periodic observations). It's a matter of time. Another factor is geography. If one notices, US Highway 50 coincidentally pretty well marks the boundary of the southernmost range of large pure lodgepole forests. North of Hwy. 50, those forests are much more common, south of it, they become less prevalent and extensive. This is a function of both precipitation and temperature patterns. Aspen is the more prevalent fire or logging "pioneer" tree in the southern half of Colorado (again, many of Colorado's beautiful aspen forests are there because the spruce and fir were logged off in the 1870-1890's--historical photographs make this easy to confirm). Unfortunately, aspen are having their issues now, too.
There is also a pretty large infestation of beetles killing Douglas Firs, and spruce budworm is taking a toll in the spruces, but that is another story.
01-17-2008, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
multitrak
Very true. It is possible to greatly enhance the chances of a house surviving a fire, though in a "mega-fire" even the best prepared home may not survive. It also does beg the greater question if one wishes to live in a burned out forest for the several decades to several centuries needed for the forest to regrow. For most mountain residents these days, that would probably be a "no." To paraphrase, today's forest fires ain't your father's forest fires. They are much bigger, unruly, and dangerous--they have A LOT of fuel to work with.
By the way, I notice only one of the links posted has a Colorado connection. While much of the advice is applicable, the fire situation in Colorado's increasingly beetle-killed forests is somewhat unique to the Rocky Mountain Region.
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People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)