Columbus - finding the fine line between it's image and it's reality... (Cleveland: neighborhood, subdivisions)

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by Tiger Beer

So, after starting this thread, and reading this thread...it sounds like most of what people say about Columbus being suburban-like and sprawly, actually is the reality than....lol

Although, I do gotta say, I do like some of the housing styles that I see in Columbus while browsing around on google maps!

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Since I'm on this thread, DUBLIN has Japanese & South Asian Indian? Mostly in Dublin? Or equally in Columbus? Also, where are the Somalis?

I suppose Dublin is all shiney and new, or has that suburb been around a long time?

No, it's actually not the reality. The numbers don't support it, but because there's this idea floating around that newer automatically equals bad, they act like their own spawl doesn't exist in order to criticize Columbus for its own.

Dublin has an old downtown and older housing in the central core area (like most of the suburbs), but most of Dublin outside of 270 is more recent. And the greatest concentration of Asians/Indians is in the Dublin area, and some of the neighborhoods closer to High Street and Campus, as well as along the North side along Bethel, etc. The Somalis are up around 161/Northern Lights and also parts of the West Side near Sullivant. There are also some pockets in the Hilliard and Dublin areas.

[funkenstein91]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

First, this is not about Cleveland. I get tired of every thread that mentions Columbus and Cleveland turning into a bunch of posts about how awesome Clevelanders think Cleveland is in comparison to Columbus. The only reason it was brought up at all is because the perception exists that Columbus has more sprawl than many cities, and certainly more than the other big 2 cities in the state. I provided some numbers to show a very different picture than what that perception is. Second, it just seems kind of ridiculous to suggest that NE Ohio has one strip mall per city or that all of Cleveland's suburbs are high-density, locally-owned development. If so, Cleveland is probably the only city in the entire country like that. In my visits there, I saw plenty of sprawl that looked exactly like it does here in Columbus and in every other city I've been to. I think you guys on the Lake need to get over this idea that Cleveland is somehow this urban mecca that no one else can come close to. It suffers from all of the same issues that every other city has faced the last 60 years since the post-war generation decided that they no longer wanted to live Downtown.

And there are trees everywhere in the city, come on. As far as outside of the city, the majority of the state is still farmland, but there are still plenty of forested areas in the metro. Columbus has over 25,000 acres of Metro Parks, not including state or other parks.

How was this a post about how awesome Cleveland is? I was simply pointing out that the sprawl complaints have more to do with just people being spread out. How are we supposed to address the sprawl question if we don't compare Columbus with anywhere else.

And yes, Cleveland has more greenery than Columbus. Its nickname is the Forest City, for Christ's sake.

[funkenstein91]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

It's ironic to me that you agree that other cities have far more sprawl, but since you consider it older, it somehow doesn't count. I don't understand this idea that "old" sprawl is automatically considered to be better, especially in the context of sprawl itself, which has been a growing reality in all cities since the early 1950s. It almost seems like the argument you are making is that more sprawl is good so long as it is of a certain, undefined age, and that cities like Columbus that have continued to grow in recent decades, unlike some of their "older" counterparts, are inherently worse because of age alone. I think just about everyone appreciates historical buildings, but I don't think this is what we're even talking about, and I don't see the idea of newer buildings being inherently detrimental to the feel of a city. It just seems like a fake reason to dislike or criticize certain cities.

None of Columbus's suburbs seem to have very many local businesses, which to me is the main flaw of sprawl. It sort of robs the area of a cultural identity.

Dive down Hilliard-Rome Road and you'll basically see everything I dislike
about metro Columbus. And for the record, I like Columbus a lot, but I try not to leave the central city areas for fear of catching the bland.

[14thandYou]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

Driving around where? 270? Highways (particularly urban ones) aren't meant to be park avenues, they're meant to be practical transportation amenities. This is true in Cleveland, Columbus, Cincy, and every other major city in this country.

Maybe I've simply grown used to the Capital Beltway and I-66, substantial portions of which are surrounded by trees. And the GW and B-W parkways are of course tree-covered as well. It's quite nice--about the only positive thing I could say about driving on the Beltway, really. I know that it's not something most cities have, but since Columbus is the city outisde of my home where I spend the most time, I just notice it more.

That said, there are a few roads and highways that I enjoy driving on around Columbus--Riverside Drive is quite lovely (north of Lane), and Rt 315 up to Delaware is really enjoyable.

[14thandYou]

Originally Posted by funkenstein91

None of Columbus's suburbs seem to have very many local businesses, which to me is the main flaw of sprawl. It sort of robs the area of a cultural identity.

Yes and no. There's an awful lot of bland sprawl, to be sure. But there are also some fantastic ethnic restaurants and indie stores tucked away in the unlikeliest of places. I think it's gone now, but there used to be an awesome Japanese restaurant in the middle of this strip mall off of Sawmill Rd.--i can't remember its name.

And my favorite Greek spot in Columbus, the Nazareth Deli, is in an assuming strip mall along a rather dumpy portion of 161.

These places may technically be in Columbus, but once you get outside of the central city the line betwee city limits/suburbs seems to blur, so i don't make much of a distinction.

They do seem to be mostly in older strip malls--the newer developments tend to attract the high rent-paying chains, and can be quite disinteresting.

[Momotaro]

Originally Posted by 14thandYou

Yes and no. There's an awful lot of bland sprawl, to be sure. But there are also some fantastic ethnic restaurants and indie stores tucked away in the unlikeliest of places. I think it's gone now, but there used to be an awesome Japanese restaurant in the middle of this strip mall off of Sawmill Rd.--i can't remember its name.

And my favorite Greek spot in Columbus, the Nazareth Deli, is in an assuming strip mall along a rather dumpy portion of 161.

These places may technically be in Columbus, but once you get outside of the central city the line betwee city limits/suburbs seems to blur, so i don't make much of a distinction.

They do seem to be mostly in older strip malls--the newer developments tend to attract the high rent-paying chains, and can be quite disinteresting.

Kihachi is still alive and kicking.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by funkenstein91

How was this a post about how awesome Cleveland is? I was simply pointing out that the sprawl complaints have more to do with just people being spread out. How are we supposed to address the sprawl question if we don't compare Columbus with anywhere else.

And yes, Cleveland has more greenery than Columbus. Its nickname is the Forest City, for Christ's sake.

It wasn't so much a comparison, though, because the idea seems to be that Cleveland doesn't have sprawl because it's older, which is pretty ridiculous.

Unless someone has physically counted the number of trees in either city, that is a silly statement, no matter what some obscure nickname Cleveland has.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by funkenstein91

None of Columbus's suburbs seem to have very many local businesses, which to me is the main flaw of sprawl. It sort of robs the area of a cultural identity.

Dive down Hilliard-Rome Road and you'll basically see everything I dislike
about metro Columbus. And for the record, I like Columbus a lot, but I try not to leave the central city areas for fear of catching the bland.

How do you define what constitutes a local business? Non-chain? Wendy's was founded in Columbus, but it's clearly a chain now. Is that local or not? Locally-owned mom and pop shops are great and all, but I still don't get the maligning of businesses that have become successful enough to expand to multiple locations. They create business, jobs, and tax revenue. And it's not like they are not found in abundance in every city, including Cleveland. Also, you equate Hilliard-Rome with all that suburbia is, but Hilliard has a historic downtown area not that far away that is filled with small businesses and old housing. In fact, just about all the suburbs have this. Going down one street in the suburbs does not exactly make one an expert.

I'm not exactly a fan of suburbia, but I also despise all these blanket and vague statements on how things are.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by 14thandYou

Yes and no. There's an awful lot of bland sprawl, to be sure. But there are also some fantastic ethnic restaurants and indie stores tucked away in the unlikeliest of places. I think it's gone now, but there used to be an awesome Japanese restaurant in the middle of this strip mall off of Sawmill Rd.--i can't remember its name.

And my favorite Greek spot in Columbus, the Nazareth Deli, is in an assuming strip mall along a rather dumpy portion of 161.

These places may technically be in Columbus, but once you get outside of the central city the line betwee city limits/suburbs seems to blur, so i don't make much of a distinction.

They do seem to be mostly in older strip malls--the newer developments tend to attract the high rent-paying chains, and can be quite disinteresting.

The Nazareth Deli has awesome fries. Used to eat there all the time when I worked on Westerville Rd. There is also a great Cuban place in old Hilliard.

I wonder if these ethnic places exist in older buildings simply because the rent tends to be much less expensive than in brand-new locations. I remember reading about Great Western shopping plaza near Hilltop. Built in the 1950s, it was one of Columbus' first strip malls. It was filled with chain stores of the era. Now it is mostly empty, but what is left is a mix of chain and small businesses.

[funkenstein91]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

It wasn't so much a comparison, though, because the idea seems to be that Cleveland doesn't have sprawl because it's older, which is pretty ridiculous.

Unless someone has physically counted the number of trees in either city, that is a silly statement, no matter what some obscure nickname Cleveland has.

No, Cleveland doesn't have less sprawl because it's older, it has less sprawl because most of the cities in the metro aren't really suburbs, they're actual urban cities that just happen to be near Cleveland. They would be there even if Cleveland never existed. That's not true of the Columbus suburbs. They are commuter towns, which is what constitutes sprawl.

Honestly, I don't see why you can't understand the strip mall thing either. Every single person I've ever had visit here has noted the high concentration of strip malls with or without prior knowledge of city. It's not like we're making crap up to insult the city. I really like it here, but I can easily see where the city gets its reputation.