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Wow, I overestimated your ability to reason... You actually will try to defend this. I think it says an awful lot about the typical victim mentality in this country. Remarkably sad display.
So for starters... Shame on you.
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Originally Posted by 313Weather
Well first off, you don't have any children nor have you ever taken care of a child, so the fact that you even feel you should offer your "expertise" in this discussion is, to put it as politically correct as possible, "laughable."
But, I will entertain your post anyway.
Yea, this guy had a kid... Some expert this guy was. Pretty much blows your premise right out of the water, then beats the crap out of it with a large stick for good measures. I don't have children because I know the burden they can place a single, working class American in. I guess that makes me unqualified to suggest what is right or wrong for an infant though... I mean, for all I know, locking your child in a car unattended for hours on end might be perfectly acceptable
And you better run over there to make sure the judge has kids. And the jury as well. Regardless, this guy will be going to jail. Seems the judge and I see eye to eye
Tell ya what, I will ask my brother tomorrow what he thinks about this. Hard core conservative, works hard, sick of seeing all his tax dollars wasted on dead beats who expect the nation to finance their misfortunes... I mean, he has a child, so only he is qualified to hold an opinion, right
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Originally Posted by 313Weather
A WEE bit more? Try more like two or three times the cost. Taking your child to a for-profit/privately-owned daycare center will run you no less than $20-$30 per day for an infant. A relative (at least in my family, I can't speak for anyone else's family) likely wouldn't charge other relative anything to take care of their children, and someone in the neighborhood (say, a teenager for example) who's not trying to successfully run a licensed business and make a profit would charge maybe $10-$15 to babysit the child.
Daycare is $30 a day? Crap, that's even cheaper than I thought it was. Guess that kind of information would be good to have prior to spreading your seed around all of Phoenix. And most babysitters charge by the hour. If this guy had to pay $10/hr, he would be paying close to $100/day for an 8 hour workday. Obviously, the licensed day care center is offering a heck of a good deal by comparison.
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Originally Posted by 313Weather
And also, who said that he didn't try to find a babysitter where he lives in Scottsdale? It's quite possible that he did go around town to try and find a place that would take his baby, but since, again, daycare centers are privately owned and operated, he may have been turned down because it was against their policy for whatever reason. Not every daycare center accepts just anyone's child on the whim. First off, the daycare center may want to do a background check of the child to see if they had any medical problems that the other kids they're taking care of could have caught (good luck getting medical records from the Doctor's office on the weekend). Second, I'm sure the daycare center would want to be assured that he would be able to pay for their services, potentially asking for past W-2 forms or past check stubs.
"Sorry judge, I tried to make rent, didn't have the money, so I robbed a bank."
The guy locked his child in a care in the middle of the day, unattended for hours on end. I don't care what he "tried" to do. He is not qualified to raise children. I wouldn't even trust him with a common house cat. Just because you can produce the kid doesn't mean you're qualified to be a competent father. Now his child will be taken by the state, and hopefully placed in a home with people actually capable of raising a child. That's what is best for the child at this point.
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Originally Posted by 313Weather
Who are you to tell someone if they should and should not have kids? In fact, who are you to suggest he isn't "mature enough?" Last I checked, you were an Average Joe Blue collar worker with a HS Diploma who was born and raised in rural Michigan and currently resides in Chicago, not a certified Psychologist who graduated from Harvard University (if things have changed, then by all means let me know, but I doubt it).
This guy SHOULD NOT HAVE KIDS. Possessing the capability to impregnate women is not a feat of accomplishment. It says NOTHING about your parenting skills. We have been given a very good idea concerning the kind of a parent this dope is. He nearly killed his infant. If you believe this case required a Harvard grad to sort out, you possibly have more issues than the father.
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Originally Posted by 313Weather
As far as his financial means, as the saying goes, "**** happens." As I'm sure any compassionate person in their right mind would know, a person's economic health can change at a whim, let along in a 1 year time span. Should one be castrated for past actions because of present/future actions that may have happened beyond their control? I'm sure the millions of folks who were happily employed back in June of 2007 didn't think they would all be jobless and at risk of homelessness and starvation 1 year later.
S*** happens aye... Good luck telling that to the grocery store clerk when you don't have the money to feed your kids. Good luck telling that to your landlord when you can't make rent. This is usually the reason folks like me like to use that brain. It's not there just to fill up space you know.
Not criticizing those who had unplanned children, but it's wise to consider the financial obligations they command, along with the time required to care for them. Preferably before hand. Should serve as ample motivation to explore the wonderful world of contraceptives, birth control, even surgical procedures if you never plan to have children. You can even make a deposit at the sperm bank prior to exploring surgical routes. I know, this requires foresight, something that few are blessed with, right?
Even still, this nation has a very generous social safety net for parents lacking the income to support a family. Go to one of the many Latin American countries and try to get the same level of service as you get here. The poverty class in this country enjoys a much better standard of living than billions of other people around the world. Being poor sucks anywhere you go, but it sucks far less here.
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Originally Posted by 313Weather
As stated before, he made the decision he felt was best given the situation he was put in. In a manner of speaking, he was trying to "Pull himself up by the bootstraps" (a philosophy Americans pride themselves upon) as no one was coming to his aid. No human being is perfect. As also stated before, no sane person would want to put their child through this intentionally. If anyone's truly hurt and angry over this, it's the father.
Don't even try to compare this guy to people who work hard, make the right decisions, and pull things together against all odds. You should be ashamed trying to lump this guy anywhere near that camp. There are hard working Americans around the country who don't earn much, but they manage to provide a happy, healthy home for their children so they can have a better future. This guy IS NOT EVEN CLOSE. He almost robbed his son of any future. Shame on you for degrading their effort.
But you're right. No sane person would want to lock their child in a car for hours on end. Exactly why I suggested this father may have some mental deficits. Where you and I see things differently is... THE CHILD ALMOST DIED. He was the one hurt most by this incompetent father's actions. You're actually going to try to make the father out to be the victim in all of this? REALLY???
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Originally Posted by 313Weather
No one's defending anyone. That said, at the same time, it's just pure ignorance and reeks of prejudice to judge someone before you have the entire story/background.
The guy locked his infant in a car for 5 hours. It would have been longer, except the child had to go to the hospital because HE ALMOST DIED. That is the full story. He almost killed his kid because of poor parenting. What more could you possibly need to know? Did the employer hold a gun to his head and tell him to do it? You may believe it went something like that, but most rational people know better.
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Originally Posted by 313Weather
Except when you're deciding to layoff hard-working employees who depend on that paycheck to support themselves and their families just because the stock holders want to earn a few more cents on their shares.
But that's a hypocrisy to discuss in a different thread.
Now you're just writing in details to suit your fascination and personal agenda. You WISH the story sounded like that, instead of this guy being a purely incompetent and inept father. I have no clue what hypocrisy you're referring to. Your defense of this dope is filled with bias, fabrication and twisting of facts, falsified details...
I didn't say it was any one person's or one group's fault. Perhaps you need to brush up on your reading comprehension?
I DID say that employers who underpay and overwork their employees should at least feel some guilt after this incident.
Feeling guilt isn't the same as accepting blame for a situation. People can feel guilt about a situation without actually being directly responsible for the situation. For example, people felt guilt when the Earthquake destroyed the country of Haiti recently. However, that doesn't mean any one was to blame for the Earthquake happening.
However, the reason for that statement (and thus the reason it belongs in this category) is because what happened in the OP is a microcosm of the major problem in America. As a result of unfettered human greed by those who are steering the ship (the need to make as much money as possible, other people be damned), you have folks like those in the OP who are, as you described below:
That's why I enjoy shows like Undercover Boss. It highlights the major disconnect between how employers see the lives of their employees and how their employee's lives truly are.
My reading comprehension is fine. Perhaps your lack of grasp on the English language is what's causing this misunderstanding. Consider looking up the word "guilt" and see how that relates to accepting responsibility and fault.
There is nothing in this story to tie it to underpaying and overworking employers. Hopefully no employer feel unwarranted guilt over this man's actions. His actions were his own.
I have to agree with you in regards to Undercover Boss. There's a disconnect between the people who work hard to make something for themselves and those who don't. This episode is a great example:
The child was in a car seat, so your particular post is irrelevant to this discussion.
A child in a carseat can still grab at coins, leftover food crumbs etc. I've seen it happen. They can also die from being strapped in that seat and have their airway restricted, the obvious car overheating, and who knows what else. Have you ever had a 1 year old? I have an 11 month old that has become fascinated with the red button and managed to pop it open the other day. Somehow I can't imagine this dad had a top-notch quality fortress car seat either.
It still boggles my mind that ANYONE would defend these actions. I am sympathetic in the sense that I lost a job over my babysitter showing up, but that is the downside to being a parent. To have gone to work and locked the child in the car is NEGLECT and dangerous.
Feeling guilt isn't the same as accepting blame for a situation. People can feel guilt about a situation without actually being directly responsible for the situation. For example, people felt guilt when the Earthquake destroyed the country of Haiti recently. However, that doesn't mean any one was to blame for the Earthquake happening.
You don't understand what guilt is. Compassion, sorrow, heartache. Those would be appropriate words. Not guilt. Unless they had some kind of hand in what happened.
Except when you're deciding to layoff hard-working employees who depend on that paycheck to support themselves and their families just because the stock holders want to earn a few more cents on their shares.
But that's a hypocrisy to discuss in a different thread.
Well first off, you don't have any children nor have you ever taken care of a child, so the fact that you even feel you should offer your "expertise" in this discussion is, to put it as politically correct as possible, "laughable."
OK, show of hands... how many people here who don't have kids, already know better than to leave an infant in the car while you go to work?
A child in a carseat can still grab at coins, leftover food crumbs etc. I've seen it happen. They can also die from being strapped in that seat and have their airway restricted, the obvious car overheating, and who knows what else. Have you ever had a 1 year old? I have an 11 month old that has become fascinated with the red button and managed to pop it open the other day. Somehow I can't imagine this dad had a top-notch quality fortress car seat either.
It still boggles my mind that ANYONE would defend these actions. I am sympathetic in the sense that I lost a job over my babysitter showing up, but that is the downside to being a parent. To have gone to work and locked the child in the car is NEGLECT and dangerous.
Yeah, I don't get the defense of this either. Between a rock and a hard place ~ I've been there. I was a single mother (albeit with good job and flexible hours and tons of family support) and there were many days when my child was crying and not feeling well and I would feel like crying myself because I didn't want to go to work and leave him at daycare. Those were the days when grandma helped me out. Or my cousin. Or I called in sick.
There is NO defense to leaving a child in a hot car for hours - none. Better to lose your job and head to the nearest soup kitchen or shelter than kill your own child in a hot car. I really can't believe people are defending the man's actions in this scenario.
Oh, you mean your entire post was offtopic and not related to the discussion the OP started?
Did you even read the thread? Many people are saying if you aren't financially stable, you shouldn't have kids. But what about those who were stable but lost that stability due to the recession? Should they have their kids snatched away as well?
Read the thread before posting. It will save you some embarrassment down the road.
Did you even read the thread? Many people are saying if you aren't financially stable, you shouldn't have kids. But what about those who were stable but lost that stability due to the recession? Should they have their kids snatched away as well?
Read the thread before posting. It will save you some embarrassment down the road.
They SHOULD have their kids taken IF they leave them in hot cars or unattended in a home at the age of one. PERIOD.
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