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"DUI MJ is up substantially over the last three years in my area.. approaching 1 in 2 drivers now self reporting MJ use along with other drugs and or alcohol while driving... or approximately 100 per month in the area I work" self reporting marijuana use has nothing to do with impaired driving, that is like self reporting drinking beer but not being impaired by the effects of it.
"We have had several fatalities over the last three years where the driver tested for MJ only... >= 5 ngm limit" Not too long ago you said you were in Redding, and if I remember correctly you claimed to be retired from an agency in Southern California. So, if you are still in California then you are either confused, or mistaken about the law because there is no arbitrary blood level of THC for charging DUI. Impairment is based on a field sobriety test for drugs. And to repeat, testing positive for marijuana does not prove impairment, at least not in California
"on the west coast police cars are referred to as radiocars... on the east coast they are referred to as beat or squad cars.. you would know this if you were a policeman.." That's bizarre, I worked in LE in California for a total of 24 years in two different agencies and "radio car" is definitely a < 1980 term, since then Police Vehicles have been called "units" i.e. what unit are you in? "where's the canine unit".
Hi poster...
Please stick to what you know... and not what you read on the internet ...unless you would like to voir dire here and now and explain your substantial LEO and DUI exlerience. We blood test for mj using >= 5 ngm as a limit of impairment...COUPLED with objective and subjective observations of impairment.Our D.A. has given his legal opinion that this is the level he can legally support in DUI mj cases
Self reporting is typically very accurate with mj use and DUI. We know this premise based upon following probation mandatory testing as a condition of probation . It is harder currently to extrapolate which was the greater contributor in the DUI.. alcohol or mj.. because of drug users desire to abuse all substances
I love it when drug proponents try and move the bar and narrative . Now they want the rest of us to accept marijuana which is a narcotic... to not be one because they say so... and this is an important distinction towards declassification... narcotics require higher levels of controls... something dopers never would go for.Proponents attack any actual evidence that their magic weed might be harmful... harm comes with every drug .. drugsters love to use alcohol as a measure.. me.. I hate alcohol too.. where I used to only say add alcohol make ******* now we can say add mj make idiot ... its not the drug.. its the user behavior
Another bright note of communities pushing back.. also a bone of contention for proponents .. a local city here just tightened up its restrictions .. now instead of allowing a square foot grow area space for outdoor grows they made a simple six plant maximum... they are heading towards a complete outdoor ban.. like other cities close by... will of the voters ... again something upheld over and over by the cali supreme court. Should mj become legal nationally in the next twenty years it can still be subject to local control through building and zoning codes... same stuff different day
I look forward to hearing all about your internet expertise... its the same proponent posters over and over ... toking up.. tuning out.. and telling the rest of us who want no part of their dysfunctional behavior.... accept us for our drug use and crappy behavior. Proponents don't want america to see real doper behavior... because while Americans are a compassionate group as a whole when they get to experience doper behavior full force in their own neighborhoods they eventually come to the same conclusions California counties have one by one... we as a society cannot trust what users say.. and one 420 rally accentuates every behavior we get to deal with daily.
No longer an open door for drug dealers in nor cal...people are moving elsewhere
Who is dying today for your weed?
As far as you telling me what policecars are called .. and yea we call them all the names used.. its laughable.. but please ..again ..tell us about your vast knowledge.. I'm amazed... read my signature.... ;-)
The woman in the article is someone I can only feel profound sadness for... what a life UNREALIZED... and we will never know by default bacause she is addicted to marijuana by default if nothing else ... I would say the same thing about alcohol... difference being marijuana will always get her high..well ..I imagine with fifty years of use she would have to use different strains and amounts to get high... or even feel whatever she likes from her dysfunctional drug use.
Want your surgeon...pilot... critical care ICU nurse.. firefighter doing CPR on your baby ...policeman making critical decisions using mj..
Nope.. not me.. no way.. there's enough errors in life without adding mj brain fog too..
What would a doper say
Its all cool bro.. I'm good.. doesn't affect me at all
Total bunk... just like what gets peddled here by mj folks
Last edited by notmeofficer; 04-23-2015 at 07:00 AM..
I love it when drug proponents try and move the bar and narrative . Now they want the rest of us to accept marijuana which is a narcotic... to not be one because they say so... and this is an important distinction towards declassification...
Marijuana is NOT a narcotic. Marijuana is essentially Cannabis and thus Cannabis is not a narcotic either. You're the one who has made claims to be a California cop, please familiarize yourself with 11019H&S which defines a 'narcotic drug' "Narcotic drug" means any of the following, whether produced directly or indirectly by extraction from substances of vegetable origin, or independently by means of chemical synthesis, or by a combination of extraction and chemical synthesis:
(a) Opium and opiate, and any salt, compound, derivative, or preparation of opium or opiate.
(b) Any salt, compound, isomer, or derivative, whether natural or synthetic, of the substances referred to in subdivision (a), but not including the isoquinoline alkaloids of opium.
(c) Opium poppy and poppy straw.
(d) Coca leaves and any salt, compound, derivative, or preparation of coca leaves, but not including decocainized coca leaves or extractions of coca leaves which do not contain cocaine or ecgonine.
(e) Cocaine, whether natural or synthetic, or any salt, isomer, derivative, or preparation thereof.
(f) Ecgonine, whether natural or synthetic, or any salt, isomer, derivative, or preparation thereof.
(g) Acetylfentanyl, the thiophene analog thereof, derivatives of either, and any salt, compound, isomer, or preparation of acetylfentanyl or the thiophene analog thereof."
Do you see marijuana listed there? I didn't think so...
We blood test for mj using >= 5 ngm as a limit of impairment...COUPLED with objective and subjective observations of impairment.Our D.A. has given his legal opinion that this is the level he can legally support in DUI mj cases
That is NOT what you said, you said that was the law, the opinion of your DA does not constitute state law.
narcotics require higher levels of controls... something dopers never would go for
lololol yep we need to control them 'dopers' they smoke them narcotics and our local merchants can't keep Cheetos in stock! We need to stop them dopers now!!!
Proponents attack any actual evidence that their magic weed might be harmful... harm comes with every drug .
magic weed..hmm and you claim to be a working California Peace Officer and you call marijuana "magic weed?" wow, just wow.
drugsters love to use alcohol as a measure.. me.. I hate alcohol too..
two things about this: I have NEVER, EVER heard anyone working in law enforcement refer to a person who uses marijuana as a "drugster", and the only time that I know of when large numbers of people used marijuana with alcohol is pre 1980 when weed was much weaker than it is now.
unless you would like to voir dire here and now and explain your substantial LEO and DUI exlerience.
..hmm drugster, magic weed, radio units, coppers, dopers, narcotics, please let it go, you are making yourself sound like you are the one who should start proving their bonafides.
want the rest of us to accept marijuana which is a narcotic... to not be one because they say so
We can't even agree on this point, one of the most basic definitions. It is NOT a narcotic. Just because your law enforcement agency calls it one doesn't make it true. I'm afraid it is you against science and the rest of the world on this one.
Why am I even typing this? Normally I would make a bullet list of all the jaded stuff you listed and give my rebuttals, but it isn't worth it anymore. Not only are you completely closed-minded about it, but it appears we have a mod who has gotten sensitive to the subject, because it seems almost all of the cannabis related threads are getting closed.
Let me just say to you that I, as a regular cannabis user, am:
NOT an idiot, as your post insinuates.
NOT engaging in dysfunctional behavior, as your post insinuates.
NOT toking up so that I can tune out, as your post insinuates.
NOT leading a life UNREALIZED, as your post insinuates.
NOT leading a life full of errors because of brain fog, as your post insinuates.
NOT leading anyone astray with Total bunk, as your post insinuates.
You are getting more and more offensive as time goes on, because you think you know the behavior of every cannabis user, when in fact you are not even close. You are so wrong on most points that it is causing you to get offensive and insulting.
Maybe your insulting remarks are why the threads are getting closed?
We can't even agree on this point, one of the most basic definitions. It is NOT a narcotic. Just because your law enforcement agency calls it one doesn't make it true. I'm afraid it is you against science and the rest of the world on this one.
Why am I even typing this? Normally I would make a bullet list of all the jaded stuff you listed and give my rebuttals, but it isn't worth it anymore. Not only are you completely closed-minded about it, but it appears we have a mod who has gotten sensitive to the subject, because it seems almost all of the cannabis related threads are getting closed.
Let me just say to you that I, as a regular cannabis user, am:
NOT an idiot, as your post insinuates.
NOT engaging in dysfunctional behavior, as your post insinuates.
NOT toking up so that I can tune out, as your post insinuates.
NOT leading a life UNREALIZED, as your post insinuates.
NOT leading a life full of errors because of brain fog, as your post insinuates.
NOT leading anyone astray with Total bunk, as your post insinuates.
You are getting more and more offensive as time goes on, because you think you know the behavior of every cannabis user, when in fact you are not even close. You are so wrong on most points that it is causing you to get offensive and insulting.
Maybe your insulting remarks are why the threads are getting closed?
Just sayin...
Well, I'll be the first to say that even science isn't absolute truth, as it is always changing. Having said that though you are correct in stating that cannabis is NOT a narcotic! Narcotics are opiate based! Calling cannabis a narcotic is nothing more than bulls*** propaganda!
We can't even agree on this point, one of the most basic definitions. It is NOT a narcotic. Just because your law enforcement agency calls it one doesn't make it true. I'm afraid it is you against science and the rest of the world on this one.
Why am I even typing this? Normally I would make a bullet list of all the jaded stuff you listed and give my rebuttals, but it isn't worth it anymore. Not only are you completely closed-minded about it, but it appears we have a mod who has gotten sensitive to the subject, because it seems almost all of the cannabis related threads are getting closed.
Let me just say to you that I, as a regular cannabis user, am:
NOT an idiot, as your post insinuates.
NOT engaging in dysfunctional behavior, as your post insinuates.
NOT toking up so that I can tune out, as your post insinuates.
NOT leading a life UNREALIZED, as your post insinuates.
NOT leading a life full of errors because of brain fog, as your post insinuates.
NOT leading anyone astray with Total bunk, as your post insinuates.
You are getting more and more offensive as time goes on, because you think you know the behavior of every cannabis user, when in fact you are not even close. You are so wrong on most points that it is causing you to get offensive and insulting.
Maybe your insulting remarks are why the threads are getting closed?
Just sayin...
I'm not sure his law enforcement agency calls it a narcotic, if they are- then they are also ignorant of California law (and that is where he claims to work) In post #22 I gave the exact language for the definition of a Narcotic drug in the California Health and Safety Code, I don't see marijuana listed there.
I'm not sure his law enforcement agency calls it a narcotic, if they are- then they are also ignorant of California law (and that is where he claims to work) In post #22 I gave the exact language for the definition of a Narcotic drug in the California Health and Safety Code, I don't see marijuana listed there.
Hi Poster.. thanks for your internet research
Please see
23152 (a) CVC.. note "drugs" .... read about how we charge and test for it.. 23222 (b) CVC is what gets you a ticket for possession in a motor vehicle
Our D.A. elects to use the 5 ngm limit because its already being used as a standard in other cases/states that have gone to appellate level. An actual per se level (please educate yourself as to what per se means.. was shot down in the legislature last year.. we went for 2 ngms (Senate Bill AB 2500)and the drugsters screamed... its coming up again.. more supporting research was requested.) A DUI drug conviction is based upon;
Aside from the blood test, evidence presented by the prosecution for a DUID case will also include the comments from the arresting officer (much like in a DUI alcohol case):
Physical appearance
Performance with field sobriety tests
Erratic driving
Incriminating statements
Conduct
On voir dire I have had many convictions for DUI marijuana... based upon the above whose weight was heavier than the actual blood test (we have other tests we can do but blood will be the normal route for drugs)
it is important to know what your DA will charge for so you dont waste your time on an arrest that wont go anywhere.. we are far too busy for that
Some more free education for you.. isnt education satisfying?
Marijuana is still classified as sch 1 federally.. Ca has elected to make a set of laws specifically for marijuana see 11357-11369 H&S sections et al regarding its use.
I know you were very proud in your research and you like being correct for all of us.. so please.. look at
11054 sub section (d) 13.. specifically naming marijuana .. this is a definition section.. but not the only place MJ is listed.. along with thc.. which is subsection 20.. isn't learning fun!!!!! See 11007 H&S for the subsections you missed
A little knowledge is just that.. a little knowledge,,, I read the penal code ..the H&S code.. the vehicle code.. the business and professions code.. the welfare and institutions code.. the fish and game code..and a number of other codes in my day... I have to use a number of cheaters for the important ones.. just in these codes there are somewhere in excess of probably 80000 laws.. throw in county ordinances and it can get pretty heady... so... I know it might be hard for you to learn them.. it takes years... the full edition of the penal code weighs nearly ten pounds.. the VC five...
So.. I forgive you for your ignorance.. I know you were trying hard... good for you.. its important to understand the laws you might be accountable for .. especially as a drug user if you are afraid of being arrested and feel your drug use is ok.. and that it should be legal.. I get that .. unfortunately it isn't..
If you were a medical user here you would also get another set of laws applied to you
I will tell you and the other people who seek a life filled with marijuana who say you get targeted.. total bunk by the way.. I haven't written a 11357 ticket in years... I go after the producers and those who make themselves known because of their behavior... for example.. the lady in this thread using MJ for fifty years and being "successful" in her opinion.. cool.. I should never know her (the "I" meaning LEO) .. she probably wont exhibit asshat behavior. We divert most if not all simple marijuana crimes in California.. see prop 36 and 1000 PC...
BUT.. and there is a but.. with 50 years of MJ use the chance of her being impaired while driving is very high.. no pun intended.. she just hasn't been caught
Here is an interesting study about MJ and driving... there have been threads on here where users report they actually drive better under the influence.. unfortunately literature and best science debunks this quickly.. please enjoy reading the references cited
I know its very important for proponents to see a reclassification of MJ from schedule 1,, I am in favor of this... as I am in favor of the creation of a specific law for being under the influence of MJ (beyond laws I can currently use) and a national standard for DUID.. again something proponents rail against...because of thc staying in the fatty tissues and blood over time... this Im not as worried about because evidenced based science will eventually address this as a larger segment of our socieity wants to live stoned
It is hard to insult stupidity,, and that is not my intention anyway...if you or any other users feels insulted please... Im sorry... I get to speak to at length to those who seek a life so foreign to me or anyone who lives a healthy life... in my off duty time I never see drug users because I cannot stand being around them.. but that doesn't mean I don't need to understand them.. and empathize with their weaknesses or hedonistic desires
I will continue my strong and passionate opposition to all drugs in our community destroying lives... property and peace... marijuana is just one of those drugs that create behavior (its not the " magic weed" drug its the person).... "magic weed" is my term because I have had users tell me it does everything under the sun for them with no ill effects... uhunh... snake oil... unscientific snake oil...
Opps.. the oil is an issue.. seems like they keep blowing themselves up over it
By the way.. I converse with users because it is important for people who sit on the fence on the issue of legalization to see just how "nutso" marijuana proponents are.. how worked up into a demanding frenzy they get when non drug users attempt to stand up to them being high affecting others...
I observe your behavior (not you personally because you are only an internet bot to me) firsthand which is why laws are being made this very minute to control the out of control MJ users... drugsters (my word but it has nice ring to it) have NO ONE to blame but themselves for the controls coming down the pipeline.. and America needs only look at what has happened to California neighborhoods with large scale marijuana use.. for us the sham of medical marijuana
I will accept an apology from you at any point... or not.. your choice... for being wrong.. if thats too hard perhaps an admission that you now see there is more to laws than you found at first glance
Have a nice day
To quote Sean Connery
"So endth the lesson"
Was MJ a part of the causal factors? Yes.. the juries felt so.. is MJ and driving an issue.. you bet your sweet bippy clyde
BUT.. and there is a but.. with 50 years of MJ use the chance of her being impaired while driving is very high.. no pun intended.. she just hasn't been caught
Amazing. So, in other words, if a driver successfully drives for 50 years without incident, and you think it isn't their driving skills, they just haven't been caught yet???
Incredible.
It dovetails nicely to the other point I wish to highlight:
Quote:
Originally Posted by notmeofficer
By the way.. I converse with users because it is important for people who sit on the fence on the issue of legalization to see just how "nutso" marijuana proponents are..
It's funny, because that is exactly why I continue to try to pound sense and reality into you. I know it is absolutely futile as far as moving your needle any, but anyone one the fence can read these threads for themselves to determine who is "nutso", and whether or not prohibition works.
23152 (a) CVC.. note "drugs" .... read about how we charge and test for it.. 23222 (b) CVC is what gets you a ticket for possession in a motor vehicle
Our D.A. elects to use the 5 ngm limit because its already being used as a standard in other cases/states that have gone to appellate level. An actual per se level (please educate yourself as to what per se means.. was shot down in the legislature last year.. we went for 2 ngms (Senate Bill AB 2500)and the drugsters screamed... its coming up again.. more supporting research was requested.) A DUI drug conviction is based upon;
Aside from the blood test, evidence presented by the prosecution for a DUID case will also include the comments from the arresting officer (much like in a DUI alcohol case):
Physical appearance
Performance with field sobriety tests
Erratic driving
Incriminating statements
Conduct
On voir dire I have had many convictions for DUI marijuana... based upon the above whose weight was heavier than the actual blood test (we have other tests we can do but blood will be the normal route for drugs)
it is important to know what your DA will charge for so you dont waste your time on an arrest that wont go anywhere.. we are far too busy for that
Some more free education for you.. isnt education satisfying?
Marijuana is still classified as sch 1 federally.. Ca has elected to make a set of laws specifically for marijuana see 11357-11369 H&S sections et al regarding its use.
I know you were very proud in your research and you like being correct for all of us.. so please.. look at
11054 sub section (d) 13.. specifically naming marijuana .. this is a definition section.. but not the only place MJ is listed.. along with thc.. which is subsection 20.. isn't learning fun!!!!! See 11007 H&S for the subsections you missed
A little knowledge is just that.. a little knowledge,,, I read the penal code ..the H&S code.. the vehicle code.. the business and professions code.. the welfare and institutions code.. the fish and game code..and a number of other codes in my day... I have to use a number of cheaters for the important ones.. just in these codes there are somewhere in excess of probably 80000 laws.. throw in county ordinances and it can get pretty heady... so... I know it might be hard for you to learn them.. it takes years... the full edtion of the penal code weighs nearly ten pounds.. the VC five...
So.. I forgive you for your ignorance.. I know you were trying hard... good for you.. its important to understand the laws you might be accountable for .. especially as a drug user if you are afraid of being arrested and feel your drug use is ok.. and that it should be legal.. I get that .. unfortunately it isnt..
If you were a medical user here you would also get another set of laws applied to you
I will tell you and the other people who seek a life filled with marijuana who say you get targeted.. total bunk by the way.. I haven't written a 11357 ticket in years... I go after the producers and those who make themselves known because of their behavior... for example.. the lady in this thread using MJ for fifty years and being "successful" in her opinion.. cool.. I should never know her (the "I" meaning LEO) .. she probably wont exhibit asshat behavior. We divert most if not all simple marijuana crimes in California.. see prop 36 and 1000 PC...
BUT.. and there is a but.. with 50 years of MJ use the chance of her being impaired while driving is very high.. no pun intended.. she just hasn't been caught
Here is an interesting study about MJ and driving... there have been threads on here where users report they actually drive better under the influence.. unfortunately literature and best science debunks this quickly.. please enjoy reading the references cited
I know its very important for proponents to see a reclassification of MJ from schedule 1,, I am in favor of this... as I am in favor of the creation of a specific law for being under the influence of MJ (beyond laws I can currently use) and a national standard for DUID.. again something proponents rail against...because of thc staying in the fatty tissues and blood over time... this Im not as worried about because evidenced based science will eventually address this as a larger segment of our socieity wants to live stoned
It is hard to insult stupidity,, and that is not my intention anyway...
I will continue my strong and passionate opposition to all drugs in our community destroying lives... property and peace... marijuana is just one of those drugs that create behavior (its not the " magic weed" drug its the person).... "magic weed" is my term because I have had users tell me it does everything under the sun for them with no ill effects... uhunh... snake oil... unscientific snake oil...
Opps.. the oil is an issue.. seems like they keep blowing themselves up over it
By the way.. I converse with users because it is important for people who sit on the fence on the issue of legalization to see just how "nutso" marijuana proponents are.. how worked up into a demanding frenzy they get when non drug users attempt to stand up to them being high affecting others...
I observe your behavior (not you personally because you are only an internet bot to me) firsthand which is why laws are being made this very minute to control the out of control MJ users... drugsters (my word but it has nice ring to it) have NO ONE to blame but themselves for the controls coming down the pipeline.. and America needs only look at what has happened to California neighborhoods with large scale marijuana use.. for us the sham of medical marijuana
I will accept an apology from you at any point... or not.. your choice... for being wrong.. if thats too hard perhaps an admission that you now see there is more to laws than you found at first glance
Have a nice day
To quote Sean Connery
"So endth the lesson"
Was MJ a part of the causal factors? Yes.. the juries felt so.. is MJ and driving an issue.. you bet your sweet bippy clyde
I have used weed since I was 16. I have no memory problems, I don't smoke in the street nor do I smoke in my vehicle. Weed is safer than any alcoholic drink. No cirrhosis of the liver with weed.
I stay in my home.
Just like someone who takes a shot of whiskey, a valium, a glass of wine to unwind, I do the same with weed.
It is not a narcotic although it's classified that way.
Quote:
Marijuana is a schedule I drug under the Controlled Substance Act passed by
the Congress in 1970. A schedule I drug is a dangerous substance that has no
recognized medical use and that has a high potential for abuse. In addition to
marijuana, heroin, LSD and ecstasy are schedule I substances.
Schedule I drugs are those that have the following characteristic according to the United States Drug Enforcement Agency:
The drug or other substance has a high potential for abuse.
The drug or other substance has no currently accepted medical treatment use in the U.S.
There is a lack of accepted safety for use of the drug or substance under medical supervision.
No prescriptions may be written for Schedule I substances, and they are not readily available for clinical use.
NOTE: Tetrahydrocannabinol (THC, marijuana) is still considered a Schedule 1 drug by the DEA, even though some U.S. states have legalized marijuana for personal, recreational use or for medical use. List of Schedule 1 Drugs
Yet folks back pharmaceutical companies that doctors give to those who suffer with chronic pain, seizures, PTSD, MS, etc. that give the patient a dependency on said drug and rake in billions of dollars in profits.
If the Feds were smart, they would reclassify it and start collecting all that money.
I think that woman is beautiful! Particularly in our obsessive "youth culture," she is 68 and looks about 45.
Since cannabinoids are anti-inflammatory (unlike some one sided postings here referring to "stoners") makes me wonder if it has anything to do with the drug.
She IS an author so idk and i don't really care if it's self-serving or not. From a case study point of view, I would like to read it.
There is enough literature and "tales of woe" about the use of MJ. Of course those have been much easier to get published in the past due to our political climate. I hope this is changing and we can start talking about use openly.
This somewhat reminds me of when I had an abortion and had no one to discuss it with prior. After the dnc, I told people that is why I wasn't around for a few days and was amazed by the women from very diverse backgrounds (in SES and marital status, all were white) who said that they had one too.
Daily MJ use should not be an "underground" discussion. We've progressed far beyond that.
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